Wikipedia:Peer review/Cham Albanians/archive1

Cham Albanians

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for March 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I think it is good enough, full-referenced and totally NPOV, and I want to see if there is any problems left in it, in order to nominate it for a GA status.

Thanks, Balkanian`s word (talk) 15:24, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Review by Cplakidas

In terms of content a rather good and well-researched article on a controversial topic. Some parts needed extensive copyediting and typo corrections, but I've done it myself where I saw the need. There are however some unclear areas and various minor quibbles:

• "Chams live mainly in Albania, Greece, the USA and Turkey.[2] Their original homeland is the Chameria region of Epirus, divided between Greece and Albania. Cham communities in Albania, USA and Turkey were created after their expulsion from Greece.[2]" This is both a bit redundant and unclear, as their origin has been stated above, while nothing about their expulsion has been mentioned yet. You could simply reduce it to state: "Cham communities now mostly exist in Albania, the United States and Turkey, as a result of their expulsion from their homeland in Greece after World War II." or variants thereof.
• "Chameria is the name applied by the Albanians to the region inhabited by the Chams", Perhaps "historically inhabited" might be more accurate, since most no longer live there.
• On the medieval history section. The cited date for their appearance in the region is the 12th century, but the header says "c. 1080". Either change the header or source it. Also, could the date be made more specific, e.g. "late 12th century" or even more precise? And it would be nice to know in which contemporary document they are actually mentioned. Also, there is claim of "a number of uprisings", already from the 12th century. Where and when did these happen? Until 1358, there is no mention of any uprisings, nor under Ottoman rule.
• I have some problem with labelling the Russian Party as "conservative". Given the nature of Greek politics at the time, this is a misleading term, and many of its leading members actually stood for progressive ideas - the right to a constitution, first and foremost.
• I made some edits on Osman Taka, since the section was a bit convoluted. I hope I've got the meaning right.
• I notice you persistently use "Cham Albanians" throughout the article. "Chams" would suffice, IMO. Their Albanian ethnicity is pretty much made clear without needing to remind the reader at every instance. It does come off as a tad obsessive.
• In the population exchange section, there is a "Under the Greek recommendation". To whom was this recommendation made? What was its context? Also "only 1,700 were exempted under this promise" is a bit unclear. What exactly do you mean in this sentence? What promise? And just below you state that "it is estimated that 5,000 Chams had been forced to leave". Doesn't this contradict that "their number is unknown"?
• the "change of the Greek government" that foiled the enforcement of the 1930 and 1931 laws. Is this the fall of the Venizelos government in 1932? If so, perhaps it's best to mention it (or whichever government is meant).
• "something which was seen as a provocation". You obviously mean the Chams here, but its best to add it. Also, who were the RSC and the CAFC? Acronyms ought to be either links or explained.

This covers it up to the end of the History section. I'll check on the remainder tomorrow. Best regards, Constantine ✍ 18:45, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Review by Michael X

• Is this A-class or B-class in the first place? I think we should think for getting it in those classes before planning GA, which is far far away.This article has a lot of issues like:
• Article ownership by Balkanian's word who cherry picks his sources and decides what should or should not be included and what is or is not RS.
• Albanian and pro-Albanian POV. This article is almost entirely based on the (proven) pro-Albanian author Miranda Vickers, who is then mostly based on Albanian propagandists like Pollo and Puto, forums, "Cham" sites, etc.
• Anachronism. "They have played an important role in the wars of independence of both Albania and Greece and have influenced the cultures of the two countries, by popular dances, songs and folk traditions that originate from Chams." "Cham" (20th century term) is used here to describe peoples of the 18th and early 19th centuries (mostly the Souliotes).
• Strong POV statements like "the Christian minority, which remained in Greece, has suffered from public suppression of their Albanian heritage and language." that are still based on pro-Albanian authors whose statements have not been NPOV-ed to be used here. Remember that all authors write with their own POV, and it is our business to NPOV them.
• Lots of spelling mistakes
• Almost no inline citations for such a controversial article with strong POV statements like "Ali Pasha was under attacks from Ottoman Army, he created an alliance with Souliotes, under Markos Botsaris, mostly because of their common ethnicity."

That's what I can see so far. But I'll be expanding this soon.--Michael X the White (talk) 17:58, 15 March 2009 (UTC)