Wikipedia:Peer review/Camp Nou/archive1

Camp Nou

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I want to get the article up to GA. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Mr.Kennedy1 ^{talk guestbook} 16:55, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Comments from Jappalang

It is a general protocol here to not strike out someone else's comments, let them do it themselves. Jappalang (talk) 01:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Lede

• "... is a football stadium in Barcelona, Catalonia, Spain."

  Unnecessarily long location name? Why not "... is a Spanish football stadium in Barcelona, Catalonia."?

• "It has a capacity of 98,787, making it the largest stadium in Europe and the twelfth largest in the world."

  "It seats 98,787 people, making it the largest stadium in Europe and the twelfth largest in the world in terms of capacity."

  Done. Mr.Kennedy1 ^talk 09:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

  There is repetition of capacity unless the 98,787 is a disputed seating figure. Jappalang (talk) 01:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

  I don't understand, please explain further. Mr.Kennedy1 ^talk 17:00, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

  I was referring to this version, but it has since been changed to the suggestion. Jappalang (talk) 02:29, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

• "... when the club membership voted ..."

  "... when the club members voted ..."

  Done. Mr.Kennedy1 ^talk 09:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

• "It held UEFA five-star status until that rating was superseded by a new system of classification in 2006."

  What category is it now?

  Done. It is now an elite stadium which is still the highest rating only a different name. Mr.Kennedy1 ^talk 09:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

  The lede is supposed to be a summary of the main body, so if it calls Camp Nou an elite stadium, where is the text in the main body text and the source to support it? Jappalang (talk) 01:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

  I see the five-star status now mentioned in the body, but where is the source for "which means Camp Nou is still at the top level, but is now an elite stadium."?

• "There were plans for the stadium to be remodeled to celebrate its fiftieth anniversary. FC Barcelona had initially approved the sale of its former training ground Mini Estadi to fund the remodeling, but financial conditions caused the sale to be postponed, and the club’s current president (as of June 2010[update]) is firmly opposed to it."

  "There were plans to remodel the stadium on its fiftieth anniversary. FC Barcelona initially approved the sale of its former training ground Mini Estadi to fund the project, but put the plans on hold because of the financial crisis in 2009. Sandro Rosell had expressed his opposition to the sale of Mini Estadi before his election as club president in June 2020."

  Done. Mr.Kennedy1 ^talk 09:33, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Construction

• "After the last renovation of the Camp de Les Corts stadium, ..."

  What is the Camp de Les Corts stadium? Why should it matter to this article? It is better to keep readers on this page (give them basic information of other objects) than to send them away (and possibly never return) to other articles. This clauses also starts a very long setence that would best be broken down into shorter components.

  Done. Reworded paragraph completely and explained what the Camp de Les Corts was. Mr.Kennedy1 ^talk 14:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

• "... called ‘Estadi del FC Barcelona’ but the more popular name 'Camp Nou' was used."

  Why are the two names enclosed with single quotes? Jappalang (talk) 01:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

• "... due to his highly attractive play."

  "Due to" is wrongly used here, and what is "highly attractive play" to a reader who is not familiar with football?

  Done. I'm not sure I got it right but I give it a go. Mr.Kennedy1 ^talk 14:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

  It was reworded to (and moved in position) "and is considered to be one of Barcelona's greatest ever players", which still provokes questions. What does this player have to do with the need for a new larger stadium? Jappalang (talk) 01:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

• "... 60,000 Barça fans."

  What is "Barça"? Should it use that perculiar "c"?

  I think this is the right way to put it as the Barcelona website itself uses this term. Mr.Kennedy1 ^talk 14:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

  The point is that the project caters to every reader. Even though you and I are familiar with the nickname for the club, there will be those that do not know of the word Barca. WP:COMMONNAME and Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Foreign terms recommends that diacritics should not be used if the term has commonly appeared in reliable sources without such marks. Jappalang (talk) 01:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

• "Governor Felipe Acedo Colunga ..."

  Governor of?

  Done. He was the civil governer of Barcelona at the time. Mr.Kennedy1 ^talk 14:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

• "The stadium was opened on 24 September 1957, to a performance of Handel's Messiah."

  I belive the comma is not supposed to be there, and "opened [...] to a performance" is grammatically incorrect.

  Done. Reworded into two setences. Mr.Kennedy1 ^talk 14:00, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Early years

• "... Dynamo Moscow, the match going 3–2 in Rangers' favor."

  ".. Dynamo Moscow; the match ended 3–2 in Rangers' favor." See User:Tony1/Noun plus -ing on why noun plus -ing constructs are disfavored and how they should be improved. There are several statements with this construct in the article, so please change them.

• The first paragraph of information is totally unsourced.

• "... new markers, and moreover enlarged the third tier by 22,150 seats for a total capacity of 115,000 spectators."

  "... new markers. Moreover, the third tier was enlarged with 22,150 seats, increasing the stadiums's total capacity to 115,000 spectators." Furthermore, markers for what?

• "... for a small set donation."

  What is a "small set donation"?

• "This later became a topic of controversy, when the news media in Madrid reported that the name of long-time Real Madrid chairman and Franco supporter, Santiago Bernabéu, had been commemorated in this way."

  What is "this", inscribing names on the bricks or doing it in exchange for a "small set donation"? Furthermore, why would this become controversial?

• The last part of the second paragraph is unsourced.

Development

• Opening single-sentence paragraph (which are usually frowned on) is unsourced.

• "In preparation for these Games, two additional tiers of seating were installed over the previous roof-line."

  "Two additional tiers of seating were installed over the previous roof-line for the Games."

• "The stadium underwent a facelift in 1993–94, ..."

  Using "facelift" for inanimate objects is informal, unsuitable for an encyclopaedia.

• "... Camp Nou’s capacity settled to its current level."

  Which is?

• "In 2000 the fans were polled concerning the stadium's name."

  Please elaborate about the polls. Was it just asking whether the name should be changed to Nou Camp or remain as is, was it a multiple choice poll, or was it one that asked the fans to submit their own names?

• "... a total of 19,861 ..."

  "A total of" is redundant.

Future

• "... the club issued an international tender to remodel it."

  "Tender" is wrongly handled here.

• "... an integrated and highly visible urban environment."

  A what (this proclamation is not even explained in the following sentences)?

• "Should these renovations be completed, the stadium will be the third largest in the world, after the Rungrado May Day Stadium in North Korea (150,000 capacity) and the Salt Lake Stadium in India (120,000 capacity)."

  Crystal ball material in matters of tone.

• This first paragraph is unsourced.

• "... in order to finance ..."

  Wordy: spot the two redundant words.

• "... Mini Estadí ..."

  Why the special "i" when it is not used elsewhere?

• "... and his election on 30 June has effectively halted the plan to remodel Camp Nou."

  Does any of the two citations (one of which is dated 20 May) actually support this statement?

Other uses

• There are at least three unsourced sentences in this section.

• Section reads too much like a list without significance to the subject (U2's paragraph at least had Bono's explanation on their choice, but this is detracted by a trivial mention of his attire).

References

• What makes footballmatch.de a reliable source? Please refer to Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-06-26/Dispatches and Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-07-28/Dispatches on how sources are generally judged.

Images

• File:Camp nou 2.jpg: has no verifiable source, violating WP:IUP and WP:CITE#IMAGE.

• File:Camp Nou - Maqueta (Norman Foster).jpg: this model (not a building) is a creative work of art (artist interpretation of a stadium) and copyrighted for at least 70 years after the death of its author or 70 years after publication (if of collective authorship). This was unveiled in 2007, so neither term is likely to expire soon.[1] This is a derivative photograph and hence requires the clearance of the copyright holders of the model for storage on Commons (or Wikipedia). Note that this is also not a work "permanently located in parks or on streets, squares or other public thoroughfares", so it does not qualify for Spanish freedom of panorama.

  Copyvio deleted. Jappalang (talk) 01:10, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Several issues here that should be tackled before sending it for GA evaluation. Jappalang (talk) 07:54, 4 October 2010 (UTC)