Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2010 June 30

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June 30

Sandbox (how to make article hidden)

I was working on a Wikipedia article in what I thought was a hidden sandbox mode, but somehow it is showing up in google search results. I don't want my half complete work public just yet. How can I hide it from the www?

Thanks! —Preceding unsigned comment added by MonkeyHouse98 (talk • contribs) 03:07, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Just add the line __NOINDEX__ to the page (that's two underscores on either side). AJCham 03:16, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I trust it won't surprise you that the impact won't be immediate. It will still show up in the google system until the next time the spider, crawls, at which time it will remove it. Could be merely hours, but might be days, rarely many.--SPhilbrickT 12:53, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

You can use {{NOINDEX}} or even better, {{userspace draft}}. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 15:58, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

How do I get my article to be posted?

Hi I followed all your instructions, went through the tutorial, used the wizard and the sandbox, did all my references and links and wiki-links as you suggested, etc, etc, got it right and then went to write my article. Then I clicked "save", and got what LOOKS like an article, with a red message on top saying that this is NOT an article but just a user's work in progress!! Well, I've been looking around all these tutorials and FAQs and browsing and trying to figure out how the heck I get from it being just a 'work in progress' to an actual article that is actual on Wikipedia that people can actually see. Please advise With thanks, Elana —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hmselana (talk • contribs) 06:24, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The message on top links to Wikipedia:So you made a userspace draft, which answers your questions. If anything on that page is not clear, let us know. --Teratornis (talk) 06:35, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

What we have now is an article in userspace which says "This is not a Wikipedia article: It is an individual user's work in progress page, " etc. - and, I'm afraid, reads like an advertisement, eg "Eretz Acheret has had measurable impact on Israeli society through its print magazine". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dougweller (talk • contribs) 08:44, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

It's also pending at AFC: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Eretz acheret. – ukexpat (talk) 12:52, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The same article also exists in mainspace: Eretz acheret AJCham 15:40, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

operations on amadeus crs

hi,

would like to know about amadeus reservation system operations of air booking. to book a ticket, things required: name of passenger (pax), number of pax travelling, number of seats sole, airline code, date of travel, orign-destination, pax ctc, meal requests, ssrs, pnr (rl), tkt. nos. , etc. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.243.40.178 (talk) 10:18, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

You might find what you are looking for in the article about Amadeus CRS. If you cannot find the answer there, you can try asking your question at Wikipedia's Reference Desk. They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer just about any question in the universe (except about how to use Wikipedia, which is what this help desk is for). I hope this helps. -- John of Reading (talk) 10:26, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

article naming of 2 churches with the same dedication St Thomas à Becket

Wikipedia has articles about 2 churches in different villages with the same dedication, but slightly different titles St Thomas A Beckett Church and St Thomas à Becket Church. I realise that one or both should be moved/renamed and probably a disambiguation page created, but I'm not sure how to do this appropriately. Any help appreciated.— Rod ^talk 10:58, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

This is one strange situation. Could you decide which one is more notable? If you can, you can put {{otheruses}} or some other similar template on one of them. If they are equal, well, then you'll just have to put up a {{confused}} template. Kayau Voting IS evil 12:20, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Wait, why isn't this a classic example where a hatnote on each would be proper? I'm going to go ahead and do it, easy enough to revert if it doesn't make sense.--SPhilbrickT 12:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Indeed so, this is a question of disambiguation/hatnoting rather than notabilty. In this case a hatnote seems entirely appropriate. – ukexpat (talk) 12:54, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for all contributions, however it appears that the one in Pensford currently titled St Thomas A Beckett Church should not have the 2nd "T" in Beckett and should probably have "à" rather than A - which would give two articles with the same name. Would it be appropriate to use St Thomas à Becket Church, Widcombe and St Thomas à Becket Church, Pensford to differentiate them? if so a dab page would be needed.— Rod ^talk 13:01, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

If the spellings are the same (which they should be as it's the same guy), then you are correct that disambiguating titles are required. I am not sure what the convention is for churches, whether it's as you suggest, or St Thomas à Becket Church (Widcombe) and St Thomas à Becket Church (Pensford). Looking at St. John's Church as an example, your formulation appears to be the common one. – ukexpat (talk) 13:37, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I glanced briefly at the links in the St Thomas A Beckett Church and saw several spellings, including "St Thomas A Beckett Church". I'm hesitant to make the move without someone pointing to a more definitive "correct" spelling. Of course, it will be ironic if "St Thomas à Becket Church" is deemed the correct spelling as Thomas Becket notes there is dispute regarding whether this is his correct name.--SPhilbrickT 13:45, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Both articles have sources for their listed building status, and the sources spell both of them "CHURCH OF ST THOMAS A BECKET", so presumably this is an error on our part. Northern Ireland has an online database of listed buildings, so I'd guess that England does as well; you'd do well to consult it if you can find it (if the two churches are listed under different spellings, best to go with those spellings), and if you can't, you could try asking at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Historic sites. At any rate, you should be aware that there are different conventions; English churches may typically be disambiguated in a way that seems odd to people (like me) who are familiar with disambiguating churches in other parts of the world or other kinds of topics anywhere in the world. Nyttend (talk) 13:55, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure that will ever be definitively resolved. The Images of England record (English Heritage) says "Church of St. Thomas a Becket" while Heritage at risk (p 243) (also published by English Heritage) says "St Thomas a Beckett Church", while The Churches Conservation Trust says "St Thomas Becket, Pensford". On Thomas Becket it has Thomas à Becket as an alternative - but nowhere does it mention spelling it with TT. I've noticed that the original source of confusion is me as I started the article in 2007. I've also noticed some reference URLs are broken which I will fix or replace.— Rod ^talk 14:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

St. John's Church and St. Peter's Church suggest that the name should be "St Name's Church, Place" not "St Name's Church (Place)" -- John of Reading (talk) 07:20, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice - both articles now moved.— Rod ^talk 17:11, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Daniel J. Bernstein (1918-1970)

I have to leave for work right now. I was wondering if anyone would head over to the above article and help out with wikifying necessities, etc. In all my time deleting articles as copyvios, this is the first time anyone has ever actually followed up on one—actually taken advice on donating material, and released the material per that advice. See the logs for the page. I think this should be encouraged.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:39, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Gonzonoir and I have taken a crack at it, but it could still use some fixing up. TNXMan 14:55, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks much. Much improved.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 23:57, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Smurfs episode list

I have found a web page in English but cannot translate into German. It is the Smurfs Episode List. Do you know how I can resolve this. There is not a list on the German website. 12:41, 30 June 2010 (UTC)~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.240.223.221 (talk)

Not quite sure what your question is. Do you want to use the episode list as a reference in a Wikipedia article? – ukexpat (talk) 12:57, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

It sounds like the user wants the article translated into German for the German Wikipedia. The best place to ask for that would be on the German Wikipedia itself, at de:Wikipedia:Übersetzungen. --Mysdaao ^talk 12:59, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Villiages and Towns Lost when State and Federal Parks are made

Dear Ms. Mr.

I've been looking for a place called "Coblin" that existed in 1872, in either Ohio, West Virginia, or Pensilvania, that does not exist today. I have searched for Ghost towns of each State to no avail. Is it possible that it was consumed by a State or Federal Park, I can't find any history on Shawnee State Park, in Ohio, or Pennsylvania. Is there any help available for this problem.

Fred —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fred1940 (talk • contribs) 13:01, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

This page is for questions about using Wikipedia. Please consider asking this question at the Humanities reference desk. They specialize in knowledge questions and will try to answer any question in the universe (except how to use Wikipedia, since that is what this Help Desk is for). Just follow the link and ask away. You could always try searching Wikipedia for an article related to the topic you want to know more about. I hope this helps. Kayau Voting IS evil 13:09, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

We do have articles on Shawnee State Park (Ohio) and Shawnee State Park (Pennsylvania) that may also be useful. Gonzonoir (talk) 13:11, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I've run a search for "Coblin" in the GNIS database, but it only shows to results: Kyes Peak, a Washington mountain also known as "Coblin Peak"; and a tall rock in Rhode Island known as "Coblin Rock". Nyttend (talk) 13:59, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Do you have any reliable sources that talk about Coblin in one of those states? Just because we don't have an article on the town doesn't mean one can't be written! TNXMan 14:49, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Splitting page history

Over at Cariris I noticed two totally different subjects were fighting over the use of the article title. Yesterday, I turned that article into a disambiguation page and created two new articles: Cariris Indians and Cariris (footwear). I have now been reminded of the need to preserve the page history. Is there a way to copy the page history to both new articles? Or should the page history remain with the Indians article or the footwear article? Or should the page histoy stay with the disambiguation page I created? Astronaut (talk) 13:23, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Both Cariris Indians and Cariris (footwear) are currently tagged for deletion. It's probably worth getting consensus at the AfD of whether the second article is notable before seeking a histmerge (which would involve article deletion as a technical necessity). If both articles do survive, since the text of Cariris (footwear) seems to be taken from Talk:Cariris rather than the main article, you'd probably want to histmerge those two together, and to merge the history of Cariris to Cariris Indians (probably just by having the latter deleted and moving Cariris to that title. But I'd say, wait out the deletion discussion first. Gonzonoir (talk) 13:32, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, but the history of Cariris is a little more involved than that. TBH, I think Cariris Indians is probably the better name for the Indians article and would avoid future problems no matter what the result of the AfD turns out to be. I just feel I'm having a hard time convincing Blanchardb of that. Astronaut (talk) 13:40, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I see your point, and it's an enterprising solution to the edit warring that's been going on there, but ... do you think the footwear company's actually notable? I've been Googling for evidence that it might be (combining "Cariri" and "Cariris" with "shoe", "footwear", "sandal", "flipflop", etc.), and I'm just not finding much. (Haven't weighed in at AfD yet.) If it's not notable, then it seems to me legit to keep the article about the Indians at the [{Cariris]] title (with a redirect to that from Cariris Indians, since the literature seems to suggest that they are quite often referred to simply as "Cariris". And there's no need for a dab page if there's only one article with a title like "Cariris" (which would be the case if the footwear article bites the dust). Of course that would mean more time devoted to fending off the footwear's fans, who've clearly been trying to get it on to the Cariris page, but I think it may be inevitable. Gonzonoir (talk) 13:50, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

What happens when you google "I can read wikipedia". The slur ni**er page appears.

I was only wondering if you all were aware that when you type "I can read wikipedia" then press the I feel lucky tab it automatically goes to the wiki page regarding the slur "nigger". I understand why you have the page I am just concerned with the coincidental way you can get there. Its almost like a sick joke of insinuating that Black people cant read. I am Black myself and frequent wikipedia's web site so I understand the freedom of the public contributing to the site but I am also aware that the site does not allow rude content of this degree to maintain. The only reason I am aware of this is because my brother's girlfriend posted it to her facebook page. I hope that you all look into this and try to, I supose fix the page if at all posible.Thank you. -alli.

It was raised yesterday at, I think, WP:ANI or WP:AN. To address the issue, an editor created two articles - I can read wikipedia and I can read Wikipedia, both as redirects to the Main Page. It may take a few days for Google to update to reflect this. Incidentally, there was some suspicion that this would only affect certain regions: I just googled for "i can read wikipedia" and can confirm the results alli mentions above - at least for the UK. TFOWR 13:36, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

[edit conflict] There's currently a discussion of this over at the administrators' noticeboard — we've discovered the situation, and we're doing what we can to stop it. Rather than being something for which Wikipedia is responsible, this is what is known as a Google bomb. Nyttend (talk) 13:38, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The thread is this one. TFOWR 13:38, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Why would anybody press the "I feel lucky" button in Google? Casinos stay in business because lots of people believe that feeling lucky is the same as being lucky, no matter how many times their experience proves otherwise. Almost every Google search produces irrelevant results on the first page, sometimes at the top of the pile. I can't imagine a reason not to examine the search results before choosing one. --Teratornis (talk) 18:17, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Intrinsic Identification of Surname

I find Wiki most useful, but I sometimes find it difficult to know what someone's surname is.

For example: I have just searched for Richard Buckminster Fuller - Is 'Buckminster' a middle name or the first part of a double-barrelled surname? Further in the far east, the surname is often put first.

I have the same issue with my name, where both my forename and my surname can be equally used as either. I resolve the issue so that everyone knows with certainty - simply put the surname in CAPS and the forename(s) only with a leading CAP. If Wiki used this simple maxim - provided this maxim was always adopted in the 'title' - all such uncertainty as regards surnames would be resolved. Iambrisie (talk) 13:50, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

There is no such system in the English language, although it is used in many other languages; and this is the English-language Wikipedia. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:53, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

See WP:NAME, which shows our naming conventions. By the way, this site is called Wikipedia, not wiki. A wiki is any website using wiki software; there are thousands of them.　 Kayau Voting IS evil 13:56, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Double surnames are indicated by hyphenation. If the last two names are not hyphenated, it can be assumed the middle name is a middle name. You may find this section of the manual of style interesting. TNXMan 14:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

The system of using all caps for the surname is often used in English-language genealogy. It was also used during U.S. television broadcasts of the most recent Winter Olympics.

The system still leaves certain difficulties, such as surnames with capitals not at the beginning of the word, such as MacDonald, persons with only one name, and persons with no surname, such as Icelandic people who use patronymics. Jc3s5h (talk) 14:02, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

And unfortunately Tnxman's suggestion, while often useful, is not always correct. For example Joseph Blanco White (when I knew Henry Blanco White in the '70s, he spelt his name differently from his father, but I do not recall which of them used a hyphen) and Ralph Vaughan Williams. There is an issue here, but I think it is best handled by saying that articles on people whose names are ambiguous in this way should explain in the lede. --ColinFine (talk) 22:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Getting someone's name wrong can 'ruffle feathers' or imply ignorance/carelessness and none of these aspects are at all attractive. I know that a significant proportion of double barrelled surnames are not hyphenated and it used to be quite common practice for a child to be given a surname of an earlier generation as a middle name (but it could equally be part of a double barrelled surname).

If the use of capitals for the name part of the surname (as against a prefix element such as 'Mac' in Scotland or 'van der' in Holland) is not helpful (I have many friends worldwide and do not find any issue with using CAPS unabiguously for the various national conventions) then Wikipedia should perhaps consider using a different point size. In any event, the notes on the usage of surnames, whilst most Iambrisie (talk) 09:24, 1 July 2010 (UTC)useful, do not cover double barrelled surnames or national conventions. It would be useful to know if the traditional western convention should always be used as a preference - but then, in any event, one would want to know what the pertaining national convention was.Iambrisie (talk) 09:22, 1 July 2010 (UTC) I am just raising the issue as an interested user wanting to help to improve the content, but unfortunately, although I can see issues I do not feel qualified to dive into changing things.

Our guideline is WP:Use English. We use the name as it is used in English (while noting in parenthesis sometimes foreign name orders and non-Latin scripts). Just the example of van der Xxxx, in America can appear as Van der Xxxx, Vander Xxxx, van der Xxxxx, vander Xxxx, Vanderxxxx, not to mention that it switches from van der Xxxx to Van der Xxxx when used to begin a sentence (and in Dutch would be alphabetized under X, not V as usual in America). Much easier to just use it the way it is used, than to try to design a system that can differentiate (would require two sizes of capitals, probably which would not necessarily be supported on some browsers). Rmhermen (talk) 14:41, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

Deletion of page

Can someone delete a page that I created. Its called User:Gobbleswoggler/monobook.js.Cheers,Gobbleswoggler (talk) 18:00, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

As it is written, so shall it be done. TNXMan 18:06, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

For future reference, you can request this by placing the {{Db-u1}} template on your user page that you want an administrator to delete. --Teratornis (talk) 18:19, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Can you confirm that it is safe to add a deletion template to one's .js file? Wouldn't it trigger a javascript error? I haven't tried this myself. -- John of Reading (talk) 18:30, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Nothing will appear on the js page itself (and shouldn't cause an error, AFAIK), but the page will be placed in CAT:SD. TNXMan 18:32, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

If you want to avoid a JavaScript error, you could replace the contents of the page with /*{{db-u1}}*/. Since it is commented out, the web browser does not subtract u1 from db and cause a JavaScript error. The page will still be categorized for speedy deletion. PleaseStand ^(talk) 22:10, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

images

Just a query, please can you tell me if there is an image included in an article that you want to crop, do you actually have to upload a cropped version, or can you insert some code to tell it what part of the existing image you want to appear in the article? (I am thinking of the picture of the Wallace Monument in the article about Scotland.) Thank you.--No name is good name (talk) 18:38, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

P.S. if it is not possible then please can someone who knows the procedure pass a feature request through to the software developers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by No name is good name (talk • contribs) 18:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

I believe that you have to upload the cropped image. I don't know of any wikicode that will do the cropping for you. You can put a request on the technical village pump, but I doubt it will be done. You can crop image in almost any picture software. TNXMan 18:43, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Some links from Commons:COM:EIC#Image:

• bugzilla:7757 – Bug #7757 – allow cropping images when rendered – proposal to enable display of only part of an image
• Commons:User:Cropbot - a bot which crops an image without requiring the user to download a copy
• Commons:Template:Remove border - a somewhat related template

--Teratornis (talk) 21:30, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, I'll have a proper look later. No name is good name (talk) 07:27, 1 July 2010 (UTC)