Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of CMLL World Trios Champions/archive1

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by Matthewedwards 18:04, 8 August 2009 [1].

List of CMLL World Trios Champions[edit]

Nominator(s): MPJ-DK (talk) 12:38, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Toolbox

I am submitting this list for FL as I believe it fullfills all the requirements, I've incorporated old review comments in the hopes of producing the best list yet. I've become very aware of redlinks in the lists and how it looks bad for what is supposed to be "Featured Contenet", therefor I have already created articles Los Infernales, MS-1 (wrestler), Pirata Morgan, Masakre and Jaque Mate and I plan on turning the remaining redlinks blue over the next couple of weeks: Outstanding redlinks at time of submission: Pierroth, Jr., Universo 2000, El Brazo, Gran Markus, Jr., El Hijo del Gladiador. Yes I am aware that have two other FL candidates but one is winding down and one has been going for a week or so, I feel confident it won't be a problem to work on input for either of them. I look forward to any and all comments. MPJ-DK (talk) 12:38, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Am I the only one that cannot get the disambig check link to work?? MPJ-DK (talk) 12:44, 23 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Truco
Comments from Truco (talk · contribs)
General
  • Dabs, external links, and alt text check out fine.
Lead
  • The CMLL World Trios Championship (Campeonato Mundial Trios de CMLL in Spanish) is the primary professional wrestling three-man tag team championship promoted by the Mexican Lucha Libre wrestling-based promotion Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre (CMLL) in Mexico since 1993. - 1)Unlink Mexico 2)I would move the sentence about how the title is a pro wrestling title after the sentence that explains about the other Trios title.
  • ..since 1993 the Mexican National title has been relegated to a secondary championship compared to the CMLL World Trios Championship. -- comma after 1993
  • The first Trios championship team to be recognized by CMLL was MS-1, Pirata Morgan and Satánico (a team known as Los Infernales; Spanish for "the Infernals") who defeated the team of El Brazo, Brazo de Oro and Brazo de Plata (known collectively as Los Brazos; Spanish for "the Arms") in the finals of a 16-team tournament. -- 1)How about instead The first champions to be recognized? 2)Because in Spanish Los is capitalized since its a noun, the The in English needs to be capitalized
  • It is the second reign for the team, while Héctor Garza has held the title three further times with other partners. -- further --> other
  • The team is the 20th overall champions, in total 36 individuals have formed 18 championship teams. -- change the comma to a semicolon
  • The team of Rey Bucanero, Emilio Charles, Jr. and Satánico held the championship the shortest time, at 39 days.
  • Black Warrior, Blue Panther and Dr. Wagner, Jr. hold the record for the longest single reign of any team, at over 1,141 days.
  • Dr. Wagner Jr's four reigns combine to 2,051 days, the highest for any wrestler. -- for --> of
  • ...Héctor Garza also holds the record for most individual reigns, with five reigns as part of four different teams.
  • The championship has been Vacated five times, either because one or more members of the team left the promotion or because a team split up, each time a tournament was held to determine the new champions. -- No need to capitalize Vacated
Table
  • Championship vacated after the team broke up -- period needed
Footnotes
  • All of them need a comma before placing
  • Everything else checks out fine.--Truco 503 17:38, 24 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support -- Previous issues resolved/clarified; list now meets WP:WIAFL.--Truco 503 15:54, 25 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Will

Support: Concerns fixed--WillC 07:41, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Wrestlinglover
Lead
    • Change image text from "Perro Aguayo, Jr., part of the 17th CMLL World Trios Champions along with Héctor Garza and Mr. Águila" to "Perro Aguayo, Jr., along with Héctor Garza and Mr. Águila, were the 17th CMLL World Trios Champions.
      • Fixed
    • "The CMLL World Trios Championship (Campeonato Mundial Trios de CMLL in Spanish) is the primary professional wrestling three-man tag team championship promoted by the Mexican Lucha Libre wrestling-based promotion Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre (CMLL) in Mexico since 1993." Add the translation of CMLL in here. Maybe change the sentence to "The CMLL World Trios Championship (Campeonato Mundial Trios de CMLL in Spanish) is the primary professional wrestling three-man tag team championship contested for by the Mexican Lucha Libre promotion Consejo Mundial de Lucha Libre (CMLL; Spanish for "World Wrestling Council") since 1993."
Title history
    • "Table last updated July 24, 2009" Is this really needed?
      • It tells the readers that if there has been any title changes since July 24, 2009 is not in the list yet, since it's an active title and all. MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • I can understand the reason, but what is the point actually? Why leave a note telling readers that editors have not updated this page. Would that appear in a written encyclopedia? No, so why should in appear in an online one? I believe readers could probably understand to not trust everything on here.
    • Make sure all of the wrestlers are listed alphabetically in each reign section, if you understand what I mean.
    • The notes should complete sentences. "Defeated Los Brazos in the finals of a 16-team tournament" is not a complete sentence.
      • To make it complete I'd just mention the name of the team, but that's generally not how the notes are worded.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Recently that is how most of the notes are done.--WillC 01:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Point to an example please.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • The most recent wrestling FLs. All mine have been that way and it usually makes more sense and is more helpful.--WillC 02:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Team reigns by combined length
    • Why don't you just do this section and the one below like other FLs like here?
      • It's done like this to be consistent with all other CMLL & Mexican National Championship FLs that have already passed, if they're going to be a Feature Topic one day they need to all be internally consistent.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well those list can be changed as well. The first lists I did, had a different format than the ones I've done recently. I've had to go back and update them.--WillC 01:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • If they are changed you cannot jump directly to "individual reigns" you'd have to go to "combined reigns", then scroll down - this format is more user friendly.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • That is why you use level three headers.--WillC 02:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
              • Then frankly it's virtually the same, an editors preference like centering all text or not. I prefer to keep it this way.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  02:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • "Table last updated July 24, 2009" same question as above.
    • All tables are quick references so everything that should be linked needs to be linked.
      • It's done like this to be consistent with all other CMLL & Mexican National Championship FLs that have already passed, if they're going to be a Feature Topic one day they need to all be internally consistent.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • The others ones can always be updated.--WillC 01:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yes they can, if it's a general rule that "quick reference" lists have links, I have not see this anywhere.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • It is supposed to be in the wikipedia MoS. I forget the link, sorry.--WillC 02:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
              • Hasn't been brought up in 6 FLs and the other FLC I got right now, can't have been very clearly marked. Lemme just say that I don't mind doing it, it's not like it's hard, I just want to be sure it's actually required before I edit all the lists for consistency.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  02:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Why don't you just use the age in days template to update the days automatically?
      • Where? in the combined reigns? Because none of them are in the first reign, to my knowledge there isn't a "age in days + a bit" template. And WP:PW got all pissy about it being OR when someone put a calculated start date to make it could "current reign + previous reign".  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • It was agreed it wasn't OR, and since then all the list articles have gone by that format. It just takes the editor counting back to which day it would add up to be correct with the statistics.--WillC 01:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • You're saying WP:PW actually got consensus on something? I'm tempted to ask for proof of this statement ;) I'll see what I can do.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • Yeah, shocking I know. Just look up the discussion you were referring to. It was pretty much unanimous that it was not OR.--WillC 02:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • And fixed.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  02:07, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Individual reigns by combined length
    • Same as above.
Footnotes
    • Fine.
References
    • Taking all Spanish ones in good faith. Fine.
External links
    • Remove Cagematch.net, it is not reliable.--WillC 00:55, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
      • Which is why it's under External Links, not an actual source.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:11, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
        • Well it is still unreliable so why link to a site that is unreliable when we are supposed to be trustworthy. Information on that site could be potentially false and some editors could think of adding it to this one as such.--WillC 01:36, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
          • Show me where it has been proven as unreliable? As far as I know it's never been proven "Reliable" which is not the same, it's as reliable as Solie.org sources not taken from the "Wrestling Title History", except it's not used as an actual source.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:54, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
            • There have been a few FLs fail due to the questionable reliability of it. One example was the CZW World Heavyweight Championship.--WillC 02:39, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
              • Which is why I'm not using it as a source.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  02:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
                • Well I don't think it should be in the article at all if it is not reliable. It is like the New York Times having and article about ants but says for more information to contact Jim Bob down the road.--WillC 07:29, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Actually I found a different reason from WP:External links under the "what not to use" it states "Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a Featured article. " which the external links all fall under. I'll remove them all.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  10:10, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support, all issues resolved. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:40, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Resolved issues, Dabomb87 (talk)
Comments from Dabomb87 (talk · contribs)
  • Just so I know, how many more of these lists do you have in the works?
    • Oh boy, CMLL recognizes 18 championships and I'm hoping for a Feature Topic one day, last count 11 more lists to come if I'm not mistaken.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  20:54, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The first champions to be recognized by CMLL was MS-1, Pirata Morgan and Satánico" "was"-->were (we're dealing with multiple champions)
  • "It is the second reign for the team, while Héctor Garza has held the title three other times with other partners." Can we fix the "other ... other" repetition?
  • "in total 36 individuals have formed 18 championship teams." Comma after "total".
  • "four different teams" I think "different" is redundant here.
  • "The championship has been vacated five times, either because one or more members of the team left the promotion or because a team split up, each time a tournament was held to determine the new champions." Change the comma after "up" to a semicolon.
  • A couple small niggles about the alt text, which is mostly very good: it is recommended that the simple present tense is used (so, "A professional wrestler ... stands" instead of "A professional wrestler ... standing"), and readers might not know what a "show" refers to. This should be remedied in all your lists, if necessary.
  • Because the following issues also popped up on the WCW FLC, I'll repeat the comments I made to Truco:
    • "The exact length of at least one title reign is uncertain, the shortest possible length is used." This is a comma splice. You have two options: 1)Use a semicolon ("The exact length of at least one title reign is uncertain; the shortest possible length is used.") 2)use a comma and a logical connector ("The exact length of at least one title reign is uncertain, so the shortest possible length is used."). Personally, I much prefer the second, as it flows better and makes more sense.
    • Footnotes: "The exact date" Add "on which" after this. Remove "where" in footnote two.
    • Footnotes: "placing" is not a good verb, because it sounds like someone actually "placed" their reign in that range. Suggest "is

not known, which means that [italics are mine for emphasis, don't actually use them] their reign lasted between $number and $number days".

  • The last two issues I raised are probably applicable to your previous FLs. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:59, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sources look good. Dabomb87 (talk) 19:40, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • A couple of the web titles have words in all caps (refs 5 and 7). Per MOS:ALLCAPS, these should be converted to title case.
  • Why are some refs' publishers "SuperLuchas" and italicized, while others' publishers are "SuperLuchas magazine" and not italicized? Dabomb87 (talk) 19:59, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Some are "cite web" some "cite news", when it's the actual magazine that's cited it's automatically in italics, when it's from the website of the magazine it's not automatically italic but should be, and I will fix it (in this and all other previous and future FLCs).  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  20:54, 31 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I still don't understand why (refs 4 to 7) it sometimes says "magazine" but doesn't other times (all the refs are online). Dabomb87 (talk) 20:19, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • It depends on what I cite, the places it says "SuperLuchas magazine" I cite the website for the "SuperLuchas magazine", when I cite the website the publisher is "SuperLuchas" as that's how it's credited in the magazine. but I'll change it all to "SuperLuchas" for consistency.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  01:21, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Resolved comments from Giants2008 (17–14) 23:44, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Comments – Looks much better than the previous list in the series, and the sorting issues seen last time are nowhere to be found here.
  • Thank you, I generally try to implement everything from the last review in the following ones, the sorting was a slip on my part.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  05:05, 2 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The team is the 20th overall champions." I'm thinking that since "team" is singular, "champions" should be as well.
  • "Dr. Wagner Jr's four reigns combine to 2,051 days". Check the wrestler's name for a missing comma and period. Giants2008 (17–14) 22:42, 1 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just noticed that the image is fair-use. There is really no way a wrestler photo is going to be valid fair-use for a list of champions. Are there any free pictures that could be inserted as a replacement? If not, remember that images aren't mandatory for featured lists. Giants2008 (17–14) 23:17, 5 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • You are absolutely correct, I had not paid attention to that. It's been removed until I can find an appropriate picture with the appropriate license.  MPJ-DK  (No Drama) Talk  06:48, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support – Would have supported yesterday if I didn't find the one problem image, and everything looks fine now that it's been removed. Giants2008 (17–14) 23:44, 6 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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