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Would you be okay with taking a new CVUA student? I have a little over 200 mainspace edits and I'm looking to help prevent vandalism accross wikipedia.
Thanks, Flalf (talk) 02:38, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi Flalf, thanks for reaching out - and thanks also for offering to help keep Wikipedia clean! In principle, I'd be happy to take you through the CVUA course, but I've got a few students on the go at the moment - some of them are nearing the end of their courses, and so I should be in a position to take you on soon, if you don't mind a short wait. While we're talking about it though, I thought it might be worth exploring whether counter-vandalism work is definitely the road you want to go down.
There are lots of things to get involved with here - copy editing, improving sourcing, discussing possible changes on talk pages of articles you're interested in - or even creating your own original content. For me, the most enjoyable thing I do here (when I get time!) is writing new articles from scratch - I've learned a huge amount while researching the articles I've written, and the process of having them reviewed has brought me into contact with lots of helpful, encouraging people who are a pleasure to interact with. It's fun!
Don't get me wrong - counter vandalism is a vital part of the project, and without editors working on it, Wikipedia would be ruined very quickly. However, while it's a necessary task, it's not a very enjoyable one. Some of the vandalism I come across is deeply offensive, and some of the people you come across are vindictive and downright nasty. So, I guess I just wanted to check whether you're prepared for what can be a slog through some unpleasant stuff. I'll therefore give you a choice: (a) we do the CVUA course; (b) you tell me about a subject you're interested in, that doesn't have an article about it, and I'll help you write it, then I'll take you through the CVUA course afterwards. Your call. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 21:26, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
I would love to have help writing and to do CVUA, but generally I just stumble on subjects I want to write on so I dont have anything in mind rn. Flalf (talk) 01:12, 14 February 2020 (UTC)
Flalf, would you like me to suggest a subject for you to get your teeth into? I generally write articles about historic buildings in Scotland. This is partly because I find it interesting, but it's also because they are an easy thing to write about for a few reasons. First, there are some reliable online sources which are enough to get the basic details right, and to demonstrate notability. Also, there are usually photographs of the buildings on Commons already, just waiting for an article to be written about them. Most importantly though, the subject is quite constrained and focussed - you write up the history, you write a physical description, bash out a lead section summarising what you've written, and you're done. If you'd like (and only if you're interested), I could suggest a building that is missing and article, point you at a few sources, suggest an article you could use as a template, and we could go from there? GirthSummit (blether) 12:38, 16 February 2020 (UTC)
@Girth Summit: Sorry for the delayed reply. Recently Irish politics and politicians (this includes the troubles) have caught my interest- but I haven't got a subject in particular. Flalf (talk) 22:13, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
Thank you so much with the buildings! I'm going to write an article an article on the headquarters of the Danske Bank in Belfast. (formerly northern bank). It was the location of the largest bank robbery in the UK's history. You can see it here.Flalf (talk) 22:18, 18 February 2020 (UTC)
Flalf, hi again - sorry I've been a bit quiet for the last couple of days, I've been doing some kitchen renovations which I thought would be a one day job, but it's taken me all week... Anyway, good work on the article - I see it's been reviewed and accepted. If you still want to go through CVUA, drop me a note - one of my other students has dropped, so I should be able to cope, provided you don't mind it if we go slow? Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 19:06, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
@Girth Summit: I ask a lot of questions and I probably wouldn't be able to go very fast myself so I'd be glad to! Flalf (talk) 22:49, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Quick Note
Hi, just wanted to let you now that I did end up moving the draft discussion to the draft talk page. I hope you didn't get all the pings I copied, I apologize if you did! :) Anyways, just wanted to let you know! Thanks, Puddleglum 2.0 19:40, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Puddleglum2.0, no - no pings received, you're good. As I understand it, you only get a ping if a new signature is added in the same post - if you're copying old pings and sigs, nothing should be triggered. I'll try to keep an eye on it, if you or DriverSafety could ping me in any further discussion there, it would help me keep track. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 19:52, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Cool, will do! I'll notify DriverSafety about the ping system and help him/her with that. Thanks! Puddleglum 2.0 19:54, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi! I took a bit of a break from my primary Wikipedia occupation nowadays (the GOCE), and combined all the sources I had to create a potential draft for the Moray Cross! If you want to take a look at it, it's right here. I guess the one thing I mainly need help with is the lede -- is that necessary for a stub? Thanks! Puddleglum 2.0 20:37, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Puddleglum2.0, not necessary for a stub - but from a quick look, that ain't no stub! I'll take a proper look over the next couple of days, but i think thay is the start of a solid article. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 21:46, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Cool, thanks. I was wondering, what do you think the title should be? Is 'Little Cross ' too vague? Maybe 'Elgin Little Cross' or 'Little Cross (Elgin)'? Sorry, I'm new to naming articles. Thanks! Puddleglum 2.0 05:04, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
Puddleglum2.0, hi - I've started adding some stuff to the draft, moved a few things around a bit, hope that's OK? Feel free to revert or modify anything I've done so far. I've got to go out now, but there's some more I plan to do to the 'Description' section. As for the name, 'Little Cross' is probably fine - we don't need to disambiguate it since we don't have another article by that name. It can be moved to 'Little Cross (Elgin)' should anyone write another article about another Little Cross somewhere else. Cheers! GirthSummit (blether) 19:35, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
Thanks so much! As far as I'm concerned, you can mess around as much as you want with it, you'll probably do what's best. Thanks again! Puddleglum 2.0 19:52, 6 February 2020 (UTC)
Hi Puddleglum2.0 - I think I'm about done with the tinkering - take a look and see what you think. Please feel free to make any changes you see fit if you don't like what I've done. A couple of things that are probably worth pointing out:
See what I did with some of the refs - adding a 'ref name' allows you to cite the same ref multiple times within the article very easily. If you are using the 'Cite Sources' tool, it's easy to add a ref name when you first use a reference - then you can just select it from the drop-down menu each time you want to use it again.
I added a coordinate template, so that the coordinates will appear at the top of the page, and you can click on them to find the location in Google maps or other services.
That's about it, apart from adding stuff based on my offline sources, and obviously tinkering around. I think this is ready to move into article space - do you know how to do that yourself?
One other thing worth mentioning - this is long enough, and in my opinion good enough, to warrant a trip to Did you know?. Have you ever looked into that? It's a way to get your work recognised on the main page. The instructions are reasonably straightforward, and I'd love for you to be the one to get the credit for this since you started it all from scratch - I can help you through the process if you like? If you're not bothered, I'll nominate it myself, but I really think you deserve the little question mark on your user page! Note that the nomination has to be made within 7 days of the article being moved into main space, so don't wait around... I also think it should be added to WP:The 10,000 Challenge - again, you can do this yourself, otherwise I'll add it and credit you as well as myself. Let me know how you want to proceed. GirthSummit (blether) 18:45, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
Thanks so much, I believe I know how to put it into the article namespace, if I have trouble I'll tell you for sure. Yes, I've prepared and read all the SKY stuff, I planned on doing that. I'm not familiar with the 10,000 challenge, it would be great if you could take care of that, please also feel free to credit yourself. :) It looks great, if I have any trouble doing stuff above. Thanks again! Puddleglum 2.0 19:11, 7 February 2020 (UTC)
And... The Little Cross link is now blue! Thanks so much for your help. I think I'll take it through DYK, you do whatever you want with the 10,000 challenge. Thanks again! Puddleglum 2.0 02:06, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Puddleglum2.0, great! I've added some categories and talk page banners, and I linked to it from List of Category A listed buildings in Moray; I also added a note at the 10K challenge. Do give me a shout if you want any help with DYK, or ideas for hooks. Good job! GirthSummit (blether) 07:25, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Just realised that you copied the text into a new article, rather than moving it. Not a big deal, but next time, you can simply use the 'move' tool - that retains all the editing history. It's under the 'More' menu at the top of the page. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 07:29, 8 February 2020 (UTC)
Real quick -- due to the fact that I didn't use the move button (didn't know that existed, thanks!), I now have a useless user subpage lying around. Can you go ahead and use your admin powerz to delete the page User:Puddleglum2.0/Little Cross? Or is there an official process I have to go through? Thanks, Puddleglum 2.0 06:00, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
Puddleglum2.0, I can indeed delete it - technically though, I think I ought to merge the histories of the two pages before doing that. I've never done that, but I'll figure it out then delete the userpage draft when I'm done. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 12:04, 10 February 2020 (UTC)
...and the article Little Cross has appeared on DyK! Yay! Thanks again for your help throughout the process! Puddleglum2.0 23:17, 20 February 2020 (UTC)
Puddleglum2.0, sweeeet! It's a nice way to celebrate good content work, I'm always chuffed with a DYK. GirthSummit (blether) 01:02, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Thanks! :D Now I am trying to think of whether or not to write another article or find an article to bring to GA... :) I'm trying to get some good content work in, looking ahead 1 1/2 to 2 years. :) Anyways, thanks again for helping! Puddleglum2.0 05:13, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Puddleglum2.0, I wrote all of my GAs from scratch, rather than trying to find articles to improve. If you put in enough work to familiarise yourself with the sources while writing the article, you're in a very good place to take it to the next level. Tips... Choose a fairly constrained subject, one which has been written about in maybe six or seven sources, which you can access and familiarise yourself with them. You don't want a subject that is so big the the body of literature would be impossible to digest, or so obscure that there are only two or three sources you could use. It's also nice to have at least one freely available image you can use (not essential for GA, but definitely nice to have). Then, read all of the sources closely, then write the article. Nominate it to DYK - reviewers there may give you some initial feedback. Leave it for a while after that, and work on other stuff, then after a while (when your fresh) come back to it and assess it yourself against the GA criteria. Make any improvements you can, and drop me a note and I'll give you a preliminary assessment. GirthSummit (blether) 15:44, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Interesting, thanks! Puddleglum2.0 15:46, 21 February 2020 (UTC)
Advise required
Hello Girth Summit, how would you deal with this[1]? Thanks in advance, --DoebLoggs (talk) 09:23, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
DoebLoggs, it's not exactly a threat of self-harm, but I would e-mail emergencies nonetheless and leave it to them to make the evaluation. Would you like me to do it? Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 09:28, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks GS, I was thinking to do the same but I wanted to have a more experienced advice. Cheers, --DoebLoggs (talk) 09:36, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
DoebLoggs, no worries, any time. Just to be sure - are you going to do it, or do you want me to? Just don't want it to slip through the gaps. GirthSummit (blether) 09:38, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Email already sent, thanks a lot GS. --DoebLoggs (talk) 09:42, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
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I thought it was clear that I'd said my piece. The only bit I liked was the quote from Burns, but I suspect most would not pick up on the two logical extensions of that, being mired in ego.
You are right. I spend too much time in philosophical musing. I'd blame Plato for that, but he would say I am responsible for my own actions, and he would be correct. --Pete (talk) 22:29, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Skyring, lots of people are telling you where the problem is, but every time you tell them it's with them. Time to stop projecting and start listening? GirthSummit (blether) 22:38, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Mmmm. And I ran myself down quite comprehensively. It's true: Jimbo did personally kick me off Wikipedia many years back for being an arsehole. Do you think I am unaware of why he did that and I haven't reflected on the whole sorry experience in the intervening years? As I said, I'm no saint. But I spent five years as a night cabbie; don't try to kid me that I don't know enough about how people work not to see that sort of thing in others.
In any case, it's not about me or any individual. An actual saint said that one must offer the ego as a sacrifice at the altar of wisdom, and I commend those words to anybody seeking to build a better world, as I hope we all are, in our own ways. --Pete (talk) 23:04, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Skyring, I know nothing of your history - I'm pretty new here. Everything I've written is based on what I've seen on the AN thread, and on this talk page. GirthSummit (blether) 23:15, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
And yet you said, "lots of people are telling you where the problem is, but every time you tell them it's with them." So, it's not "lots of people", it's only a handful, and precisely where did I tell them "the problem is with them"?
On reviewing my responses - and there were only four of them - I can see one occasion where I told a snarky guy he was being snarky. A gentle press on his self-awareness button. Asking people for diffs and examples is what we do as Wikipedians. We seek sources. If none are forthcoming, then one may draw conclusions.
For my own self-awareness, could you show me where I told everyone else the problem was with them? --Pete (talk) 23:37, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Skyring, are you really going to come here and quibble about the difference between 'lots' and 'everyone else commenting on that thread'? Look, I thought I was doing the decent thing by suggesting that there was nothing more to say at that thread, and it should be closed. You want to continue to thrash it out? Be my guest. Just don't say that nobody told you it wasn't a great idea. GirthSummit (blether) 23:49, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Mmmm, just wanted to know where you were coming from. If you can't come up with a source, that's okay. You were trolling me on the AN thread; it seemed as if you wanted a response. I think we're done now? --Pete (talk) 01:57, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Skyring, no, I wasn't trolling you, I was trying to give a sensible answer to your question, and to draw a veil over a conversation that I did not think was going to end well for you. You replied with snark and derision, so I concluded you were trolling. If you weren't, and all of this is meant in earnest, then I apologise for that comment - but I stand by the observation that you don't appear to know how to interact with others in a civil manner, as I believe your comments above demonstrate. But yes, I think we're done now. GirthSummit (blether) 09:10, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
I teach philosophy. It's not something that can be taught by pouring the wisdom of the ages in through the ears and waiting until the student is wise. A Zen koan is more useful, as it gets the student thinking about the answer, and they find it for themselves. The wisdom is already there; it just needs to be uncovered, and when that happens, there is a lttle flash of joy.
So I can't be a searchlight shining the way through the whole forest. Just a candle pointing the way to the next tree.
Often people don't want to go in the direction indicated. They are comfortable in their familiar hollow, they think they know all the answers, they don't want to think about thinking. It's too hard to climb the slope. Stay in the comfort zone.
To be honest, that's most people. But I don't stop trying to nudge people towards thinking about things that are just a step outside their usual thoughts. And often it is uncomfortable, contemplating things we have always turned away from in the past.
One thing all this philosophy - starting in 2008, and not really sinking in for years after - has done is to give me access to a certain model of mind that proves helpful. It is hard to navigate all the terms people use to describe what goes on inside their head. Mind, reason, emotion, spirit, thought, consciousness, self, soul, ego. All that stuff, and everyone has a different idea of what each word means. A lot of discussion time is spent trying to thrash out a mutually-acceptable meaning for a particular word.
But in my line of work, that's not wasted time. It's finding the next tree, because just thinking about how we think is always useful.
Don't kid me, Girth. You were trolling. In the sense of angling for a response. That's not necessarily a bad thing; a lot of time in thoughtful discussion we do leave these little baited hooks for the other person to nibble on, and we go to and fro enticing and teasing and learning about the other. I love that stuff. With a teacher, a poet, a lover. We run along each other's thoughtways.
"…you appear not to know how to interact civilly with others," you said. Seriously, what sort of reaction was that intended to elicit? I think wisdom lies in leaving that nasty little hand-grenade well alone!
It's not as if I was unaware. I'd already admitted pissing off everybody from Jimbo on down over fifteen years. It's like ripping off a huge rollicking pungent fart in a crowded elevator, smiling, taking a bow, and have some smart-arse say, "Do you know you just broke wind?"
You said it again above, and this time you got a response. And I'll ask again. Just what was running through your mind to say such a thing?
And again, I ask for an example. Seriously, I can't see it. I told an obviously snarky guy he was snarky. What, precisely, did you find incivil about anything else I said? Quote, diff, your thoughts? --Pete (talk) 23:51, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Skyring, OK. I suggested closing a thread because I didn't see any good coming out of it, and I thought there was a non-zero chance that it might have ended in sanctions being imposed upon you - I was trying to do you a favour. That was the first time you and I had interacted anywhere, as far as I can remember, and your response was to suggest that I hurry along to the next puddle with your mop and bucket. Now, it is notoriously difficult to pick up on nuance of meaning in text-based communication, but seriously - was a civil way to respond? I read it as a dismissive put-down. GirthSummit (blether) 07:42, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Wikipedia's administrative tools are often likened to a janitor's mop, leading to adminship being described at times as being "given the mop". Just like a real-world janitor might have keys to offices that some other workers are excluded from, admins have some role-specific abilities, but – also like a real-world janitor – they're not more important than the other contributors.I lifted this image from WP:ADMIN, and I see similar images on your page above. From my earliest days on Wikipedia, the sign of the mop has been the badge of the admin, one borne with pride, and I assume that holds true today. Just checking here, I see several references to the mop, so it is a term you are as familiar with as I. You noted that there was no organising cabal, and that I was probably not going to get anywhere with grand philosophical points and that advice resonated with me. As you yourself didn't provide any useful response on how admins might lift the civility tone of the wikiworkplace, I suggested - to all - that it was time to go off and do admin stuff, AN being an admin noticeboard, presumably one frequented by admins looking for jobs to carry out.
I'm sorry if you felt that it was incivil to refer to your admin work as doing jobs with mop and bucket. No offence was intended at all. I thought my appreciation of the work that admins do was something I stressed in my contributions, and so far as I can see in my limited interaction with you, you are doing a fine job. May you excel and prosper and inspire others with your example. --Pete (talk) 09:24, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Skyring, I am of course familiar with the analogy. It was not the use of the word 'mop' that I thought was uncivil, it was the tone of the comment. There's nothing offensive about jogging, but telling someone to 'jog on' is to dismiss them with derision. GirthSummit (blether) 09:37, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Well, it seems we managed to confuse each other. You advised me not to troll with a comment which I took as trolling, and I took your advice that admins weren't considering higher things today with a sign-off that it was time to do admin stuff. No offence intended, but you saw it that way. I think we may have cleared up everything now? --Pete (talk) 09:57, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
Response to your last post on others users talk page - Thank you for taking your time and energy on responding to my concerns. I really don't have much time at this moment for that article and topic, I'm working on creating some article. Since you are knowledgeable and expirienced, if you have some time on your hand please look at Art Deco article a bit, particularly sections that have source from 1905 and similar to support text and see if that is ok or not. I think there is plenty of OR and SYNTH, but if you don't that is perfectly fine, thank you for your time once again and all the best. Sauvahge (talk) 12:47, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
Sauvahge, hi, thanks for dropping in here, and you're welcome. When I'm acting with my admin hat on, I try not to get involved in the actual content if I'm attempting to mediate a dispute. From what I have seen so far in the article history and on its talk page, there was only a very minor bit of edit warring, which has now stopped, and there is a discussion taking place involving four editors (including yourself) who all (I assume) have more knowledge about the subject than I do - in short, I don't see that any admin action is currently required. I see that ColdCreation referenced another source that might address your initial concern; if you don't have time to spell out any other concerns you have on the talk page, I suggest you just leave it for now. Best GirthSummit (blether) 13:00, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
Ping
I am glad that you asked the most obvious question. I wanted to but discarded the thought. Also you cannot fix a WP:PING that way, so they did not get the ping. You need to sign in a new line for it to fire up. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 18:55, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
Are you sure? DBigXray are you sure about that? My understanding was that by deleting my old sig and adding a new one, I would issue a new ping? GirthSummit (blether) 18:59, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
I only received 1 ping and it was for this diff--⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 19:02, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
DBigXray, ah - you learn something new every day. So the sig needs to be on a new line, is that what you're saying? GirthSummit (blether) 19:07, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
Thats exactly they wanted to convey below. --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 19:10, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
And as I expected the second one failed. Folks have tried to explain this on the PING page by bolding it "Note that the post containing a link to a user page must be signed; if the mention is not on a completely new line with a new signature, no notification will be sent." :D --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 19:06, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
DBigXray, jeez, you don't expect me to read the manual do you? We'll be here all day... GirthSummit (blether) 19:08, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
No one cares if you read the manual or not. You should know enough to get your work done, and apparently this one is rather important as it involves human emotions. "How dare he ignore me, eh ? " --⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 19:10, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
February 2020
Hello, I'm Flalf. An edit that you recently made to User:Girth_Summit/CVUA/Flalf seemed to be a test and has been removed. If you want to practice editing, please use the sandbox. If you think a mistake was made, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. did i do it right?Flalf (talk) 18:34, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
Flalf, yep, good job - that worked fine. I'm logging off now to make dinner, but I'll put the next task on the training page soon. In the meantime, be sure to read WP:VANDALISM closely, and also familiarise yourself with the Recent Changes feed (accessed by the link on the left of your screen), and the filters you can apply to it. Cheers! GirthSummit (blether) 18:43, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
Please stop your distributive editing. If you continue to edit distributively, you may be suffering of bilocation. —PaleoNeonate – 07:06, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
PaleoNeonate, ha - two templates in 24 hours - what will my talk page watchers think, I'm usually such a goody-two-shoes! GirthSummit (blether) 07:34, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
Comon guys, this is admin harassment, more than that it is admin's talk page watcher harassment. GS dont we have some sandbox for CVUA trainees to test their sword ? ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 07:37, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
DBigXray, Flalf is new to Twinkle. They reverted me at a training page which nobody else is watching, but I wanted to give them the chance to try putting a warning message on a user's talk page after a revert. Apologies for any inconvenience, it's not going to become a common occurrence. GirthSummit (blether) 07:40, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
yes, I understood that much. I just feel that using an Alt account acting like a vandal on some sandbox would be more helpful to test templating skills. Keep up the Good work. ⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 07:45, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
I hope it was obvious that mine was completely fictitious, not an existing template. I also wouldn't have posted it if I wasn't in excellent terms with GS. In any case, thanks for patrolling and sorry for the inconvenience. —PaleoNeonate – 07:52, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
It was obvious. I came here just to share the idea about alt account for templating. cheers--⋙–DBigXrayᗙ 08:03, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
DBigXray, most trainees though have already used Twinkle to revert changes and issue warnings before starting the course, so this is a bit of a one-off - not worth the bother of setting up an alt account for, but I'll likely do that if it becomes a regular part of the course, thanks for the suggestion. GirthSummit (blether) 09:48, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
The Admin's Barnstar
Thanks for the PP on Jaboukie Young-White, I was on the fence about asking for it and you went ahead and just got the job done. Proves to show that the mop is in good hands. Ifnord (talk) 20:47, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
Thanks Ifnord! Yeah, so much nonsense from so many IPs within the last couple of days - I was in the middle of trying to find the last decent version to revert to but you beat me to it, protection seemed like the obvious call. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 20:50, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
Question
Is this username a violation of the username policy? I'm not inclined to report it, but I just want to check with you. The username I'm talking about is: 01101010. Interstellarity (talk) 22:37, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
Interstellarity, I don't see an issue with it. If it looked like an ip I could see the problem, but that looks OK to me. GirthSummit (blether) 22:39, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
Thank you. I was just checking. Interstellarity (talk) 22:41, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
Yes, I thought it might map to an ASCII character. I'm glad we didn't BYTE a newcomer (ba-doom-tish). GirthSummit (blether) 06:47, 26 February 2020 (UTC)
CVUA question
Am I allowed to change previous answers to final exam questions? Can I answer questions out of order? The reason I'm asking the latter is because there's certain questions I'm more confident in answering. Clovermoss(talk) 05:05, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
Clovermoss, hi - if there's anything you want to change, go for it. And yes, answer in any order you like. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 06:47, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
I've answered some questions today and am closer to actually finishing. I've also done a lot-ish countervandalism work outside of CVUA. I did have one question about a question though: what do you mean by complex abuse? It's one of the questions in the last part. Clovermoss(talk) 00:38, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
Clovermoss, it means something that isn't obvious - AIV is for obvious vandals, but where would you report something subtle that needed to be explained carefully with diffs? GirthSummit (blether) 06:43, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
By the way, I'm sorry it's taking me awhile to finish the course. I keep getting involved in different areas... real life, the Signpost, redirects, etc. I've also done some counter-vandalism on my own as well. Anyways, I am getting closer to actually finishing that exam! I'll be sure to ping you when it's all done. Clovermoss(talk) 03:14, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
Clovermoss, yes, I've seen your edits around the place over the last few months, glad you're finding plenty of things to do! I've noticed that you've been adding answers periodically, it all looks good so far, do let me know when you're done do we can sign it off. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 08:59, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
And sorry - just realised you already responded on your talk page - I must have missed the notification, sorry for not thanking you sooner. GirthSummit (blether) 18:57, 27 February 2020 (UTC)
E-mail
Hello, Girth Summit. Please check your email; you've got mail! It may take a few minutes from the time the email is sent for it to show up in your inbox. You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{You've got mail}} or {{ygm}} template.
@Smuckola: Smuckola withdraws their comments or someone sanctions him for what they did, I will take this to ARBCOM to get enforcement of their ruling. Never taken anything there before or ever taken part in anything there....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 18:42, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
Because personal attacks are consider disruptive editing and reads 'If blocks fail to solve the problem, or you are still unable to obtain attention via ANI, and all other avenues have been tried: File a case for the Arbitration Committee to review. Base it strictly on user conduct, and not on article content.
We have plenty of content and an editor who didn't back down[2] from his attacks....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 19:07, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
WilliamJE, thanks for the note. I'm not going to unilaterally apply sanctions in this case, since the disruption has stopped (i.e. they have stopped posting these comments) and we don't do punitive blocks. I would be willing to give a warning however, and will likely do so at the end of this debacle. I would also have been willing to consider redacting the comments as PAs, but since they have been repeated multiple times in the thread, that would be a lot of redacting. You must do what you think is right and necessary, but my honest advice to you would be to let it slide - nobody took the DUI comments seriously, their only effect was to detract from the argument of the person who posted them. FWIW, my other comments on the thread still stand - all I'm looking for from you is a statement to the effect that you get that it was a daft thing to do, and you'll make sure not to do it again, I'm not looking for a pound of flesh. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 20:20, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
GS, I didn't expect you to do that at this point. I am just telling you. BTW, besides Smuckola, do I have to notify other editors in the thread of my filing at ARBCOM if I DON'T mention them by name in my initial filing. Of course anyone named, would be notified by me....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 20:29, 28 February 2020 (UTC)
WilliamJE, I'm not sure to be honest - I've never thought about raising an Arbcom case, I never looked into it. If the instructions aren't clear, you could ask an arb or a clerk, the ones I've dealt with have all been very approachable. GirthSummit (blether) 09:21, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Thanks. What wasn't punitive about this block[3] six years ago? I didn't come to ANI looking for one, just to get the editor to stop his behavior. A block for a week seems too harsh and I'm pretty sure I wrote the blocking admin just that at the time....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 19:20, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Now this[4] is happening at my talk page. I get called a hall monitor and 'What is it about "notable" that you do not understand?'. That from an editor who ignores (To quote- Also, I don't remember what the original source I posted was) what I wrote just 4 sentences above, and in a reply[5] at the article talk page too, about his source coming from Find a Grave. All this action on my talk page reminds me of a quote from Auric Goldfinger in Goldfinger. 'Mr Bond, they have a saying in Chicago: 'Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. The third time its enemy action.'
I posted a notice at the top of my talk page telling people when I'm around WP and when I'm not. That's because twice in the last month or so someone took me to ANI because I didn't respond fast enough to them or their pings. Now I'm going to have to post something about reading every word I write in a talk page reply before responding back to me. For if you make claims afterwards about not knowing something I wrote about, I may take it as a NPA violation. 4 sentences below something I wrote this editor who claimed not to know his source. No editor should have to do post these notices but this stuff is getting ridiculous. Taking Smuckola to Arbcom may end this stuff because it sends a signal- Stop messing with me....William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 19:13, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
WilliamJE, hi there. Context: I'm in the UK, it's 7:35 on a Saturday night, and I'm making dinner, so please excuse me if I'm brief. From a very cursory check, that block looks like it was made in parts because of threats to do something in the future - a threat to continue disruption is worthy of a block to prevent that disruption. When I say 'not punitive', I mean we try to establish whether the disruption seems to have finished, or if it's likely to start up again, that's all. Past behaviour obviously weighs into that, but a one-off outburst which stops once someone has vented doesn't justify a block nearly a week after the fact. I don't have time to look at the stuff on your talk page now, but I promise to do so tomorrow, and will step in if necessary. Please don't do anything rash about Arbcom - don't file a case hastily in the hopes of scaring people off, the cogs there move slowly. GirthSummit (blether) 19:42, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Possibly the most hard-earned award by any Wikipedian ever
The Featured Article Medal
By the authority vested in me by myself it gives me great pleasure to present you with this special, very exclusive award created just for these few, these happy few, this band of brothers who have shed sweat, tears, and probably blood in order to be able to proudly claim "I too have taken an article to Featured status". Gog the Mild (talk) 22:39, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
That looked like a pig of a FAC. Congratulations. And I hope that you have come through with your sanity intact. Gog the Mild (talk) 22:39, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
Hey, congratulations! Puddleglum2.0 03:02, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Wonderful work. Pleased to see this promoted. CassiantoTalk 08:37, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks all - Cassianto, your rigorous review was very much appreciated, and Gog your shepherding me through the whole process was invaluable. I shall go and investigate those blingy things, I like a nice badge... GirthSummit (blether) 10:17, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
I am so happy for you that this came to a positive end. Congratulations! So glad she was finally promoted. It was a joy working with you on it. So sorry that my non-British English caused so many problems for you. *sigh* But job well done! SusunW (talk) 15:55, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
SusunW, ha! I am sure I would do the same thing trying to work in AmEn. Thanks for the kind words, and ditto - it was a real pleasure working with you on it. BTW, I'm still trying to get around to trying to find out more about that subject you were working on - hoping I might be able to do some work on it this afternoon (now that Margaret's where she needs to be!).
Gracias, mi amigo. If you can find anything that would help, that'd be great! SusunW (talk) 16:48, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
Welcome to the one hundredth and forty third WikiProject Yorkshire monthly newsletter.
Thanks to the contributions of our many members and supporters, WP:YORKS has become a leading local British WikiProject in terms of the total number of articles supported (up from 15,346 last month to 15,404 on 29 February 2020). In the area of GAs WP:YORKS at 157 is ahead of WP:GM who have 87. WP:GM has the lead in FAs at 68 out of a total number of 4,472 articles.
Currently we have fifty two Yorkshire featured articles:
The number has been kept deliberately low to give us a fighting chance of improving them to at least GA status, also so we can concentrate our efforts on these first.
Destubathon
The Great Britain and Ireland Destubathon is running in March, sign up if you can help, there's nearly $500 worth of book prizes available so if anybody needs books for other topics this might help you out! The project has 5,550 articles currently tagged as sub-class, members could join in the drive and help reduce this number by expanding them up to at least start-class. We are not looking to merge articles but to expand them. In the process you may be in for a prize.
WikiProject Yorkshire Collaboration of the Month Project
The March 2020 articles selected below are an editor choice as there were no further suggestions from the project talk page.
The project is subscribed to a clean-up listing which lists articles tagged with various clean-up tags that need attention. The listing is refreshed by a bot on a regular basis.
Monitoring is essential Use the watchlist to keep an eye on changes to the project's articles so that vandalism and spamming can be removed as quickly as possible.
Moves Please be careful when performing articles moves and ensure that you also move all the talk sub-pages and update any image fair use rational. Otherwise the archives, to-do lists, assessment comments and GA reviews get lost and the image may be deleted as it has an incorrect FUR. You will also have to check that the Commons link is set correctly.
Thanks
Comments, questions and suggestions about this, or any, issue of the newsletter are always welcome and can be made by pressing the feedback button below...
Would you like to write the next newsletter for WP:YORKS? Please nominate yourself at WT:YORKS! New editors are always welcome!
Delivered March 2020 by MediaWiki message delivery.
If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, please add an N to the column against your username on the Project Mainpage.
Following an RfC, the blocking policy was changed to state that sysops must not undo or alter CheckUser or Oversight blocks, rather than should not.
A request for comment confirmed that sandboxes of established but inactive editors may not be blanked due solely to inactivity.
Technical news
Following a discussion, Twinkle's default CSD behavior will soon change, most likely this week. After the change, Twinkle will default to "tagging mode" if there is no CSD tag present, and default to "deletion mode" if there is a CSD tag present. You will be able to always default to "deletion mode" (the current behavior) using your Twinkle preferences.
I did not criticise the nominator, only the nomination for failing WP:BEFORE. FOARP (talk) 16:38, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
FOARP, thanks for dropping by. I'm not meaning to harangue you, but a nomination itself cannot fail to do anything - only the nominator can do that, I don't see how they could have read it as anything but criticism of themselves. I don't see why people see the need to accuse folk of having failed to do a BEFORE - why not simply vote keep, make your argument, and leave it at that? I think that you were clearly right, your argument was strong enough on its own merits, no need to couple it with a dig at the nom. I know you're not the only person who has every done this, and that discussion was a long way from the worst I've seen, I'm just tired of seeing it at all. Sorry if I came across as singling you out for what I think is really a cultural problem at AfD. GirthSummit (blether) 19:00, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
Failing WP:BEFORE is an argument against the nomination. It is stating that evidence of WP:SIGCOV in reliable sources exists and is easily locatable, hence the nomination (typically for failing WP:GNG) is incorrect. As I stated when I voted for you at your RFA, I think you need to acclimatise a bit more to the way that general AFD (as opposed to the anti-vandalism/NPP side) works - there are many articles correctly AFD'd, but equally as many where the basic work of WP:BEFORE has not been done. This is why the "keep" ratio is so much higher for people participating at general AFD is than for other areas. Stating that this is the case is nothing wrong, anymore than stating that an RFC is wrongly formatted is an attack on the RFC'er, or indeed stating that an article fails WP:GNG is an attack on the author of the article. FOARP (talk) 10:21, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Hmm. I'll have a think about that, and I do take the point that nominating an article to AfD is indeed a criticism of the author of the article - I've seen a couple of instances recently where good, productive people have been driven away from the project because their work has been repeatedly nominated to AfD. Perhaps the criticism is justified, but can I ask you to consider whether it's always necessary. If I nominate an article to AfD, I try to explain why I think it should be deleted without explicitly criticising the author - I wouldn't say 'the author has failed to consider WP:GNG', or 'The author has failed to demonstrate notability' - I mean, it's implied, but I don't say it directly. If you present a bunch of sources that demonstrate a GNG pass, it's implicit that the nom could have found them if they'd looked harder; do we really need to spell it out when we do so? Doesn't doing that add a touch of hostility that we would be better off without?
As you say, this is just my perspective as a relative newcomer. GirthSummit (blether) 10:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
I guess I should add that I came to AFD through having an article of mine, that was well-sourced in numerous reliable sources, AFD'd almost immediately after I first created it. I find the WP:BITE factor of having your articles AFD'd way higher than than any disagreement over the grounds of deletion. This is because editors who are nominating articles for deletion already have some familiarity with Wiki, whilst those creating articles may have only just started and their article is to an extent a labour of love. Later on I got to know about NPP and how the editors there have to deal with a near-continuous stream of garbage articles, and the AFD nominations I was seeing for bona fide articles began to make more sense to me - if you work on a continuous stream of vandalism or COI articles your going to be a lot less patient and sceptical towards articles. It's best not to direct your comment to the author ("the author has failed to show notability"/"the nominator didn't do WP:BEFORE"), and I did not do that, but I guess I can still go further and always state positively that I'm talking about the nomination itself. FOARP (talk) 13:05, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
FOARP, thanks again for taking the time to discuss this. Please let me apologise for the tone of my comment at the discussion - you're clearly thoughtful about this, and I agree with what you've put above about unwarranted AfD noms for non-spam. I do want to encourage a more positive environment at AfD, but I maybe need to be more careful about how I express myself when I do that. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 13:27, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Interstellarity, yes - sorry, I'm out and about at the moment, planned to look at this when I got home, but my first thought was NOTHERE so no surprises at a quick block. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 21:49, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Johnson28.7, hi. Please will you start signing your talk page messages - other users have asked you to start doing this, it makes communication difficult when people don't do it. The best way to prevent an article from being deleted is to demonstrate that the subject is notable. The best way to do that is to find a few independent, secondary and reliable sources discussing them in depth - this is covered at GNG in detail, with links to pages explaining what is mean by those terms. I'm afraid that I don't think such sources exist for this individual, which is why I voted deleted, but I could be wrong - if you can find such sources and add them to the article, feel free to drop me another note and I'll reassess it. Deletion discussions usually last at least a week, so don't feel that there is a rush for you to do this - take your time, find the best sources you can, but ensure that they meet all of the requirements at GNG. Best GirthSummit (blether) 11:05, 15 March 2020 (UTC)
It doesn’t have to be perfect!
Does it have to be specific? TONE-TONE59 (talk) 08:44, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
TONE-TONE59, I'm afraid I don't follow - what do you mean by specific? I reverted because your edits left the sentence grammatically incorrect, and even if I'd corrected the mistake, the addition was unnecessary. GirthSummit (blether) 08:48, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
I mean why do you have to leave your edit like that most people don’t always go by the full name Sylvester the Cat you can just call him Sylvester for short. TONE-TONE59 (talk) 19:13, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
TONE-TONE59, indeed, but don't you think that's clear by the fact that we refer to him simply as Sylvester throughout the rest of the article - so we really need to spell it out in the first sentence? That question aside, he can't be 'referred as' anything, it has to be 'referred to as'. GirthSummit (blether) 19:37, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi Girth Summit. Congratulations on the award. Just in case it wasn't clear though you're only eligible for a triple crown if you have the same numbers of nominations in all three fields: DYK, GA and featured. While you have 11 DYKs and 5 GAs, I can only give you the standard triple crown as there is only one piece of featured content nominated. There's no point in listing additional nominations in only one or two categories only. Have a great day. :) Damien Linnane (talk) 03:22, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
Damien Linnane, thanks! It was only the standard one I was expecting, sorry if listing all those additional DYKs was pointless - I should have read the instructions more closely. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 07:36, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
Question
Hello again! I was wondering something and couldn't find an explanation for it,and you were the first person that came to mind to ask. =) I was just curious: do you know what the "Dups?" section is in the RfA table? Thank you, and congratulations on the Triple Crown above! Yours, Puddleglum2.0(How's my driving?) 03:58, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
Puddleglum2.0, it's duplicate votes - there's a bit of software that checks to see if anyone has voted twice. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 07:34, 18 March 2020 (UTC)
Fine whatever, I don’t give a care about your changes! TONE-TONE59 (talk) 06:21, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
TONE-TONE59, you're welcome to argue the case for your suggested edit on the article talk page - I'm not attempting to block you from editing in any way, I just didn't agree that your edit was an improvement. We operate by consensus here, and are expected to discuss changes if people disagree with them. I have seen the remarks you left here earlier, and I would caution you not to repeat that sort of outburst anywhere on this site - abusing other editors in that manner will very quickly lead to your account being blocked from editing. Best GirthSummit (blether) 10:10, 19 March 2020 (UTC)
Troll or good-faith user
I received this message giving me a barnstar. I'm not quite sure if this is the purpose of a barnstar. I've had trolls give me barnstars before, I reverted them. I would like to know if this user is a troll or a good-faith user. Interstellarity (talk) 11:59, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Interstellarity, nothing's jumping out at me to make me think it's trolling - unless there's something going on I don't know about, I'd have thought they were probably just grateful for the fix you did on their talk page? GirthSummit (blether) 12:09, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
(watching) They're certinly WP:NOTNOTHERE, having as they do a proprtionately higher mainspace edit count than either you, me or Girth :) ——SN54129 12:17, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Interstellarity, I don't think you need to - you could thank them if you like, or just leave it. Let me know if you think they're harassing you. GirthSummit (blether) 14:02, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello. Correct decision of yours to delete I think. Incidentally, what I actually said was that "the subject is almost certainly notable, if everything in the article is true", and that was similar to the view of Usedtobecool as expressed in the (now deleted) talk page of the article. As is stands (stood), there was nothng to reliably support anything. Emeraude (talk) 21:34, 21 March 2020 (UTC)
Emeraude, apologies, I should have been clearer in my closing statement. I do take the point that you were speaking hypothetically (if sources existed). Since you were named specifically, would you like me to amend the close and make that point clearer? Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 20:16, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
Girth Summit Sorry, wasn't intending to make an issue out of it, but if you could I would appreciate that. Thanks. Emeraude (talk) 22:27, 22 March 2020 (UTC)
Emeraude, done - sorry for mischaracterising you, that was careless of me, no problem asking me to set the record straight. GirthSummit (blether) 09:05, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
CVA Acadamy
Hi, do you have an estimated time for when you'll be done with one of your current students? I wouldn't mind choosing another trainer but you're the only one in my local time zone. Bᴇʀʀᴇʟʏ • Talk∕Contribs 17:10, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Berrely, hi, nice to meet you. Three of my current students are in the final stages of the course (in fact this is a useful reminder for me to give them a bit of a prod!), so I should have some space freed up soon. I should be able to set up a training page for you in the next few days, if that works for you? GirthSummit (blether) 18:41, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
If I can just chime in but doing CVA and NPPS at the same time might be a bit much. I would recommend focusing on one or the other of these (speaking of which {{U|Berrely} there is an assignment waiting for you now). Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 19:00, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
, Berrely I would definitely agree with Barkeep49 on this one - I didn't realise you were a student of his. Having been through NPP school with BK myself last year, I can tell you that you are in very good hands, but doing both at the same time would probably not be the best idea. Come back to me when you've finished NPP school if you're still interested and I'll pick it up with you then, cheers GirthSummit (blether) 19:08, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Barkeep49, I know, it's just that I want to be able in a while to do some CVA and it seems that no trainers are available, of course, it would be a hassle to do two things at the same time! Bᴇʀʀᴇʟʏ • Talk∕Contribs 08:29, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
TBJApple
I really do feel like I was hitting a brick wall! Govvy (talk) 21:56, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Govvy, thanks for letting me know. I did my best to help them. GirthSummit (blether) 22:16, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
No probs, I am now confused by user Shellwood heh, just had the most weird exchanged, how did a jerk like that get all his user rights?? Govvy (talk) 22:18, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
Could you stop making personal attacks and edit warring? I don't have to make any replies to you, respect that. Shellwood (talk) 22:21, 23 March 2020 (UTC)
GirthSummit, I'm sorry if this dragged you into this. In any case feel free to review Govvy's edits, with regards to WP:NPA, per above. Shellwood (talk) 00:56, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Shellwood, Govvy apologies for the late response - I logged out last night before Govvy left that post.
Govvy, I'm utterly baffled by this. As far as I can figure out, your beef with Shellwood is that they removed a message you put on their talk page, and a couple of follow-up messages you added afterwards. I surely don't need to dig out the link that tells you that users are permitted to remove messages from their talk pages, and that doing so is often taken as an indication that they've read them? I didn't see anything that required a response there - if that's the only reason you came here and made an unambiguous, direct personal attack about them, I'm lost for words. I don't particularly want to head over to your talk page and give you a 4im templated warning about PAs, but I'd like to see you acknowledge that you were out of line above and undertake to up your efforts to abide by CIVIL. GirthSummit (blether) 08:13, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Er? Shellwood writes words!! I went to bed last night and now all this shit is on your talk page Girth, so sorry about that, seriously Shellwood, were you stalking my contribs? What's your problem, you can easily be decent and respond on your talk page correctly or my talk page, what I say to someone else is between myself and that person, regardless who I talk about. Secondly deleting a comment on your talk page isn't an acknowledgment that's just being a cold shoulder, that doesn't help anyone. I don't know what you call an edit-war, pfft, hell, I really don't care anymore about this. In future I guess I will just simply revert all your dupe edits, you clearly have no interest in reviewing your edits on the number of duplicates you've done. Govvy (talk) 11:37, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Govvy that's not quite correct - I'm afraid I'm going to have to get the links out after all:
WP:NPA - see the very first sentence. You cannot refer to someone else as a jerk anywhere on Wikipedia.
WP:UP#CMT - there's no reason why users can't just remove comments from their talk page, Shellwood was not obliged to respond to you. I guess you wanted them to say 'Oh, sorry' or something like that - was that really worth putting three messages on their page when it was pretty clear they didn't want to discuss it, and even threatening to report them to admins?
Shellwood might have found your comments here by looking at your contribs, but they may very well have my talk page on their watchlist - we're both active in counter vandalism, and I have had a number of interactions with them in the past (all of which have been positive). Many admins' talk pages are watched by a lot of people, particularly people who work in similar areas.
So - I repeat my request that you acknowledge that talking about someone in the terms you did was out of line - even if you think they've been a bit rude to you by ignoring your comments, escalating to a direct PA is not a good idea. GirthSummit (blether) 12:28, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
:/ Whatever, it's all just silly, not my fault how other people act or operate on wikipedia. Freedom of speech allows us to be critical, it also gives one the right to give a verbal attack to another within means. A court would throw out the case straight away, wikipedia is just so anal when it comes to policies. I really hate it when people start piling in policies, please don't do that. I could go on all day, it's quite simple to reply to someone, but to delete comments, pfft, that's just being lazy and pathetic in my view. Govvy (talk) 13:21, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Govvy, there isn't a right to freedom of speech on Wikipedia - it's a privately owned website. You edit according to the terms of use and the site's policies, or you get kicked out. Policy says that it's not OK to call someone a jerk; common sense says that if someone obviously wants to be left alone, you ought to leave them alone. It's not your fault if someone else acts inappropriately, but it is your fault if you end up resorting to insults. Just agree not to do it again and I think we can drop this. GirthSummit (blether) 13:54, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Isn't wikipedia hosted on US servers that the public are freely allowed to access? I thought it had to abide by the First Amendment? It always feels like Wikipedia is above the law. Govvy (talk) 14:15, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Govvy, nope - they're privately owned - the owners permit random people to use their servers, subject to their adherence to the terms of use. There's nothing against the US first amendment in that - those servers are private property, their owners can publish (or refuse to publish) whatever they like. Anyway, it feels like you're avoiding the issue a bit here - do you, or do you not, agree not to call other editors jerks (or any similar such insults) in the future. (Hint - if you don't agree to that, a tedious but necessary warning template will appear on your talk page, followed by blocks if you actually do keep talking about people in that way.) GirthSummit (blether) 14:21, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
p.s. - if you want to see the terms of use you agree to abide by every time you click 'Publish changes', click on the blue link in the sentence just above the button, By publishing changes, you agree to the Terms of Use, and you irrvocably.... GirthSummit (blether) 14:24, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Mark Walport
Hi Girth Summit is this the right place to discuss Mark Walport? Or should I be doing that somewhere else? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atbk ugotit (talk • contribs) 17:08, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi Atbk ugotit - the talk page of the article itself is the best place to discuss the content of that article, so that other interested editors can see and comment. GirthSummit (blether) 17:10, 24 March 2020 (UTC)
Hi Girth Summit. Great lengths were made to make sure to separate you - the second nomination as the page was titled by you - from a sock puppet account that was the first nomination. In fact, the only time you were mentioned before your complaint was a very long positive statement about you. I assume there is miscommunication? Here is the dedicated paragraph "However, there is no question that the second nomination came from an established user with no ill intent so let's not group the paid service "sock puppet" and the second established user together. I want to make that clear that bad users give the good users a bad reputation just by standing next to them so need to not allow that to occur here. The second user was noticing a page adjustment (they see thousands so cant know every detail on the back story of each one) and it's on other users to inform them on this page details that the original deleter somehow got away with in their fast deletion. "
Before research on you was done there was even a clear statement that no research was done on you yet. When research was done the positive statement was made long before your complaint.
On my end, I see this as miscommunication because only positive care was given to you. But let me know if you feel otherwise.
Wikkot
Wikkot I've replied to you at the ANI thread. If you have any on-Wiki evidence to support your accusations about sock puppetry / undeclared paid editing regarding the other user, you should present them there or. Note however that WP:OUTING prohibits the publication of off-Wiki evidence that might connect an account to a person's real identity, so if there is evidence of that nature I'd recommend contacting a Checkuser to ask if you can e-mail it to them. GirthSummit (blether) 09:12, 25 March 2020 (UTC)
This article was moved to a different title and then you immediately deleted the redirect. Unfortunately, this means that the redirects to this article must be fixed manually. If there had been a redirect left, then a bot could have fixed the double redirect. Maybe after a page move, you could leave the redirect up for a while until the bot does its magic. Thanks! LizRead!Talk! 04:51, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Liz, hi, and thanks for letting me know - not sure what I was thinking when I did that, it won't happen again. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 08:36, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
Following the banning of an editor by the WMF last year, the Arbitration Committee resolved to hold a Arbcom RfC regarding on-wiki harassment. A draft RfC has been posted at Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee/Anti-harassment RfC (Draft) and not open to comments from the community yet. Interested editors can comment on the RfC itself on its talk page.
Miscellaneous
The WMF has begun a pilot report of the pages most visited through various social media platforms to help with anti-vandalism and anti-disinformation efforts. The report is updated daily and will be available through the end of May.
Welcome to the one hundredth and forty fourth WikiProject Yorkshire monthly newsletter.
Thanks to the contributions of our many members and supporters, WP:YORKS has become a leading local British WikiProject in terms of the total number of articles supported (up from 15,404 last month to 15,578 on 30 March 2020). In the area of GAs WP:YORKS at 159 is ahead of WP:GM who have 87. WP:GM has the lead in FAs at 68 out of a total number of 4,477 articles.
Currently we have fifty two Yorkshire featured articles:
The number has been kept deliberately low to give us a fighting chance of improving them to at least GA status, also so we can concentrate our efforts on these first.
Destubathon
The Great Britain and Ireland Destubathon has been running throughout March and a thank you to all members that participated in the effort to reduce the number of stub articles in the project. There were 32 Yorkshire articles de-stubbed by the effort. Though the number for the project has increased, this is due to tagging of more articles, with 174 new articles tagged this month.
WikiProject Yorkshire Collaboration of the Month Project
The April 2020 articles selected below are an editor choice as there were no further suggestions from the project talk page.
The project is subscribed to a clean-up listing which lists articles tagged with various clean-up tags that need attention. The listing is refreshed by a bot on a regular basis.
Monitoring is essential Use the watchlist to keep an eye on changes to the project's articles so that vandalism and spamming can be removed as quickly as possible.
Moves Please be careful when performing articles moves and ensure that you also move all the talk sub-pages and update any image fair use rational. Otherwise the archives, to-do lists, assessment comments and GA reviews get lost and the image may be deleted as it has an incorrect FUR. You will also have to check that the Commons link is set correctly.
Thanks
Comments, questions and suggestions about this, or any, issue of the newsletter are always welcome and can be made by pressing the feedback button below...
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13:15, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
CVUA - finished the final exam
I finally finished answering all the questions. I was just thinking about how all of this took a lot longer than I thought it would, but I'm still glad that I went through it all and eventually finished it. Thank you for taking your time to help me learn this stuff, and for your patience. Clovermoss(talk) 06:06, 31 March 2020 (UTC)
Clovermoss, hi - sorry for the slow response, I've been going through some difficult real life stuff. I'll go through your answers tomorrow and get back to you - thanks for letting me know that you're finished. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 19:45, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
Take as much time as you need. Real life comes first. I can definitely wait a day, especially after you waited so long for me. I've been working on Katherine Hughes (activist) in the meantime. I noticed that you do content work, so I thought you might find it interesting that I'm working towards my first GA. Hughes accomplished a lot in her life, so it's been interesting to learn so much more about her. Clovermoss(talk) 19:54, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
Clovermoss, thanks - I'll take a look! Yes, writing new content (and getting feedback and encouragement from other like-minded editors) is actually the thing I enjoy most on Wikipedia. It's just not always easy to find the time! Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 20:01, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
It's been a mostly enjoyable process so far. Broadness is the main issue, so I've been expanding the article. Some of my additions seem a bit awkward to me and I'm not always sure the best way to provide context, so it's been a bit difficult in ways I wasn't really expecting. Clovermoss(talk) 20:16, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
CVU training
Hello Girth, can you pls train for CVUA as I see you train users as I'm very interested in fighting vandalism. Just gor info, I recently had a rollback request denied due to my tenure and lack of experience. In real life, I am a school student but due to the current COVID-19 issue, I have plenty of time to edit Wikipedia. Antila333 (talk) 18:02, 30 March 2020 (UTC)
Antila333, hi - thanks for getting in touch, and apologies for the slow response - I've had some real life issues over the last couple of days. As you can see in the section below, one of my current students is just about finished the course, so I should be able to take you through this - I expect I'll be able to set up your training page tomorrow (UK time), and I'll ping you from there. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 19:49, 1 April 2020 (UTC)
Girth, I recently made a pending changes reviewer request at PERM, no one has looked at my request yet. Can you kindly grant me the right as I feel I could use it properly. Also kindly ping me when you set my training page. Thanks. Antila333 (talk) 08:50, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Antila333, hi. I've created your training page, please see User:Girth Summit/CVUA/Antila333. As your trainer, I wouldn't normally assign user rights to you - technically I can do it, but I think it's better to leave it to someone uninvolved. However, I'm sure it won't be long before someone goes through the requests and assigns it. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 12:29, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
Please remove from the realm
this guy, if you could. Many thanks! ——SN54129 11:50, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
This s very tiresome. I wonder who I've pissed off in Abu Dhabi :) ——SN54129 12:06, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
I've now blocked the 2001:8f8:1f04:4270:2:1:f3d8:9d07/64 range also. They may have more ranges, I guess. If this doesn't stop them, you may want to take it to ANI for attention from the more high-grade range-blockers; far from being on fire (but thanks for the image), I'm only a labourer in the vineyard, I do /64's and that's it. Bishonen | tålk 12:08, 3 April 2020 (UTC).
Bishonen, thanks - I was just typing up an ANI thread, but I'll wait to see whether it carries on after your block. (I don't even know what /64 means I'm afraid - keep meaning to read up on that side of things). Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 12:10, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
It has carried on; this one is yet another, different, /64. You'd better try ANI. Bishonen | tålk 12:13, 3 April 2020 (UTC).
Hi, I notice you removed the visibility of some revisions to Quarantine (poem) because of a copyvio. Many of the earlier revisions of the page contain a copyvio of the same poem, which was removed when the article was nominated for speedy deletion: can you remove those as well? They first seem to have been added in [6], and were removed in [7]. Thanks. YorkshireLad ✿ (talk) 17:01, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
YorkshireLad, Ah - good spot, thought I'd caught it, should have read through the history more carefully - thanks. GirthSummit (blether) 17:10, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Girth Summit, Thanks, but it's on me; I should have thought to get the revision removed when I changed the speedy nomination to an AfD. Thanks for removing them! YorkshireLad ✿ (talk) 17:14, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
YorkshireLad, well, thanks anyway for checking back through. Do you know how to do a revdel request for specific versions using User:Enterprisey/cv-revdel.js? Just in case you haven't come across it, it's pretty handy if there is copyvio in an article or its history, but not enough to warrant G12. GirthSummit (blether) 17:29, 6 April 2020 (UTC)
Good morning from Calabria, I am writing to greet you and know how you are, I am quite well for now. I ask you a small favor if you can, that is to help 3 biographies of my interest to be written in correct English. ie Fanny Cadeo, Claudia Letizia and Stefania Orlando. Right and no more than 10 minutes of your precious time. Of course if I can do something for you I'm at your command. Sure of your positive response, I thank you in advance and wish you a happy day. Sincerely.--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 12:13, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino, hi - the first thing I would ask you to do is to improve the sourcing - I don't speak Italian, so you're likely to be in a much better position than me to do that. Stefania Orlando is supported only by her personal website (not WP:INDEPENDENT) and IMDB (not reliable). I declined the BLPPROD, but if you can't find independent, reliable sources giving her significant coverage, the article is likely to be nominated at AfD and deleted that way. Are you familiar with GNG? I took a quick look at Fanny Cadeo, and there are problems with sourcing there too - only the lead section has any references (all from 2015), the rest of the article is unsourced. It would be good to ensure that all of the assertions are reliable sourced - English-language sources are preferred, of course, but Italian ones are OK if English ones aren't available - just make sure that they're reliable. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 12:19, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Having trouble with an editor wanted your feedback
I hope all is well with you, with all the nonsense in the world. While with ton of free time I decided to spend some time on an article of a subject that I like.
Since we had an interaction prior and found you reasonable. I'd figure I'd ask you.
I happen to take some time with the article of the shortest leading men in film history who also happens to be a death defying stunt performer and a first rate martial artist named Weng Weng. Philippines' first international celebrity in the 1980s... One of these unreal page.
For years while notable no information on the subject was available, so a lot of unreal stuff was made up about him and became mythos, while other unreal stuff said about him is true. I wrote in a section for the "debunked and truth".
Eventually a documentary and a book on the subject came along. I own both and are my prime source of citations. The author is now considered a film historian and his work is accepted by academia since he is now a lecturer on Filipino film history. I own them both and decided to help with this page that was in dire need of citations while old rumors where published as fact.
A lot of information on Weng Weng are accounts by his family, former co-worker, and friends. No interviews with the subject have survived the passing of time, so it's accounts and recollections by others. In regards to subjects intelligence some say he was slow while others said he was normal. I try to be fair and show both sides of the story.
I usually say who said what, but on several occasion I forgot and write "it is said", by not mentioning whom. Which was a complaint that other editor had in which he may be right.
Below are links in the history section, so you can compare my cut to his.
That user wrote me on my talk page and I wrote him back. If I find a reasonable agreement with this user or he just leaves fine, but if not I thought I would let you know in case it reaches new heights.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Filmman3000#April_2020
If there is any wrongdoing or wrong-editing on my part please let me know. I personally can't think of any, but who knows...Filmman3000 (talk) 15:59, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Filmman3000 Hi, and thanks for reaching out. I'll take a look at this tomorrow if that's OK - I'm about to make dinner. I'm sure we can iron out any misunderstandings,if that's what this is. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 17:10, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Thank you have a great meal.Filmman3000 (talk) 17:13, 8 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi Filmman3000, I've read through the diffs above, and some of the article history - although it's a long article, and you and the other editor have been going back and forth a lot in recent days, so I can't claim to have read everything. Here's my initial take on it:
You are both edit warring, to an extent. There is too much communication via edit summary, and not enough communication on the talk page. I see that you have attempted to use the talk page, and the other editor hasn't responded, so thank you for that.
I can see some problems with the prose, that the other editor has pointed out. I will list some examples below of what I'm talking about, but I want to stress that this is not comfortable for me - I don't want to come across as nit-picky, or putting you down - but since you asked...
There are a lot of grammatical issues - sentences which don't really make sense. For example: Nicart who had doubt on dela Cruz due to his intellectual and physical limitations, but quickly changed his mind, when he realized how collaborative and his bravery since dela Cruz never refused a stunt. I can see what you're trying to say, but this sentence doesn't make sense. I think what you wanted to say was something like 'Nicart doubted dela Cruz's suitability for the role due to his intellectual and physical limitations, but changed his mind when he realized how collaborative he could be, and how his bravery allowed him never to refuse a stunt.' That was one of the worst examples, but I have to observe that there are mistakes in quite a lot of the sentences.
Then there is the issue of tone. The previous sentence is quite a good example - we shouldn't saying that dela Cruz was brave and collaborative in Wikipediea's voice - those are subjective terms, which ought to be attributed. If an appropriate source and quote could be found, it would be better put as something like 'Nicart said that he initially had doubts about dela Cruz's suitability for the role on the grounds of his intellectual and physical limitations, but explained that he was won over by what he perceived as dela Cruz's bravery and collaborative nature.' - do you see the difference? We don't use words of praise ourselves, but if someone else has praised the subject we can put that in a quote or an attributed statement.
There are other issues with slightly promotional or puffy phrasing - we aim for neutral language, rather than phrasing which seeks to impress the reader. Examples like To this day, dela Cruz starring role in For Your Height Only (1981) is the most successful film export of the Philippines should probably be written as "For Your Height Only (1981), in which dela Cruz had a starring role, remains the most successful film export of the Philippines" (but it should probably clarify what we mean by that - gross profit? Net profit? Number of sales? Breadth of distribution?). Similarly Dela Cruz took the spotlight from everyone, to the horror of film auteurs, dynasty actors, other local action film stars, and other gliterattis is not something we should be saying in Wikipedia's voice - this needs toning down.
It is said that... - see WP:WEASEL, we don't use phrases like that.
So basically, yeah - I can see why the other editor found fault in your work. Having said that, I think it would have been better for them to discuss them with you and explain the issues.
My suggestion would be to go to the article talk page, and indicate that you recognise that there were some problems with the prose, and ask whether the other editor would be willing to go through it with you slowly and work together. Rather than try and fix up the whole article at once, perhaps work on one section, and ask them if they agree with the changes - they could help fix the typos, and check that they agreed with you on the tone, before moving on. If you like, I'd be happy to put a comment on the talk page myself suggesting a way forward like that, pinging the other editor? Hope this has been helpful. GirthSummit (blether) 11:03, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
Thank you Girth Submit,
Your wisdom is appreciated. If it's ok with you obviously, some time later (days or week I don't know), I will ask you to double check, to see that I do everything in line. (I misread your last line lol, please jump in)
The other user made two assessments that aren't correct. One that he was polite. You can look at his/her talk page its debacle, it reminds me of my talk page when I started here, but he's been here 14 years. As I said above there is minor foul language to his editing notes, and never replied to my reply.
Second when I started editing the article I used the talk page to express certain that certain elements where I was doubtful. I also did that on the two last pages where I focused. See Brandon Lee and Stuart Whitman.
In the case of Brandon Lee, I did start by writing away at the article and trimming it when I felt it was complete. In the case of Weng Weng what you see was never meant to be the final draft.
Just like Bruce Lee the mythos on the shortest action leading man is jaw dropping. It is the first article I work on where 95% of elements is described by others, so it is an unusual subject.Filmman3000 (talk) 17:03, 9 April 2020 (UTC)
@Girth Summit:, you might want to know that the above user seems to be using your name (or, at least, Girth submit's name) to justify his edit-warring, tendentious editing, personal attacks, and page ownership over at Weng Weng and its article talk, seemingly implying you are condoning his edits. I think his behavior is a case for an ANI so just wanted to give you the heads up. JesseRafe (talk) 12:42, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
JesseRafe, thanks for letting me know. I was going to head over to the talk page at some point today anyway, I'll move it up my list... GirthSummit (blether) 13:20, 10 April 2020 (UTC)
Regarding deletion of "Aleksandër Vezuli"
Hello Girth Summit,
I wanted to update this page to add some missing works (Original classical music and songs).
This page should have had nothing more than my music career, if there were issues, I apologize.
The Articles for Deletion reasons I read over are a bit too broad, is it possible to point out specific issues or examples of what I should be including or not, so that it's correct with your policies? I can edit it to conform to those policies.
Regarding notability, I can easily add more sources, it's just that the page hasn't been edited in a while.
The album (was not linked on the old page, only mentioned in text) has been released for 13 years and is listed on all the major music providers: iTunes, Amazon, Spotify
There are many other citations that do not exist yet on this page.
In the meantime, is it possible to return this page to it's original content before it was edited? The page has been live at least since September 2016, and the only issue from Wikipedia was to edit it further to conform to Wikipedia's "neutral point of view" as seen by the Internet Archives here. None of the issues mentioned in the Articles for Deletion were mentioned during this time (4-5 years).
If this is not possible, am I able to resubmit an updated page in the future?
This page was intended to provide and record lists of works that have been used, performed, or listed internationally, such as the music for this movie, as well as the life of this composer. I would like that it would stay up, but can see it needs polishing.
Thank you very much! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alvezuli (talk • contribs) 23:59, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Alvezuli, hi, thanks for reaching out. So, looking back at the deletion discussion, the consensus was that the subject of the article is not notable, according to our criteria. This was because editors weren't able to find enough sources that were reliable, independent and secondary, and which gave the subject significant coverage. Looking at the sources you mention above - IMDB is user-generated content, and so not considered reliable; music providers like iTunes are selling stuff, so they aren't independent. I can't comment on the Record Online article - I'm in the UK, where the website is blocked - but one would need to evaluate whether it gives the subject significant depth of coverage, or if it's just a brief mention; one would also need to consider whether it's truly independent - rehashed press releases don't really count as independent. Take a look at WP:GNG for more information on what would be needed to establish notability.
This brings me onto my second point. If I understand you correctly, you are the subject of this article, am I correct? That means that you have a conflict of interest with regards to it - you need to read the guidance at that link, because there are steps you have to take, and certain actions that you are not permitted to take. If you wanted to recreate the page, you would be permitted to do so, but you would need to submit it through the WP:AfC process, so that others can review it, and you need to make the required COI declaration clearly when doing so. If the article was accepted, you wouldn't be allowed to edit it yourself except in extreme circumstances. I'd advise you to look at the guidance at WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY - writing about yourself is really strongly discouraged. GirthSummit (blether) 09:18, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Good morning, I hope everything is fine there. I am well enough for now. I am writing to ask you what I can do for Stefania Orlando's page, she is at risk of being canceled again. Could something be done? or is it better to leave it alone? Waiting for your news, I thank you in advance and if you need, I'm at your orders!--Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino (talk) 03:50, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Luigi Salvatore Vadacchino, hi - I think the best advice I can give you would be to beef up the sources. If you look at this discussion, you'll see that the deletion tag was declined by another admin, because he saw that the Italian Wikipedia's article about her had sources from Corriere della Sera - it would be good if you could read those and add some content based on them to our article, they may well confirm her notability. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 09:28, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for your message
Let me give give you a bit of history.
Some years ago I was being continually harassed by a male editor of the sort who reverted to referring to menstrual problems and women taking their meds if he didn't get the response he wanted.
He was a reasonable sort of copy editor..... provided he was editing the copy of someone who did not write precisely what was meant. For example "Wells Cathedral claim to have the oldest Cathedral choir" does not mean the same as "Wells Cathedral has the oldest Cathedral Choir". The difference in wording is slight, but it leaves the way open for the fact that Winchester makes the same claim...
This was a person who continually pulled sentences together and put semi-colons into them.
OK. we had a situation which became sexist until I went to arbitration and discovered that this person was far too valuable an editor for them to do anything about him, even a warning. I urged them to consider the fact that counting semi-colons is not the sane as an edit count based on thousand word paragraphs.... to no avail.
I took a sabbatical of five years. In the meantime, this person was found guilty of the offence of sock-puppetry, and banned. Sock Puppetry? tsk! tsk! Sexist harassment? Ignored.
I must say that I was just a little distressed when a few years down the track a much younger female went to the BBC with a story about the harrasment on Wikipedia.
So why did I bother coming back? It came to my attention that numerous students were putting up You Tube videos on Gothic architecture that all missed the same vital point- that the key element in Gothic architecture is the pointed arch. Not the ribbed vault and the flying buttress but the pointed arch. All across the world there are thousand of churches and other buildings in the Gothic style ( incl Neo Gothic) that are recognizable as such for just one reason- pointed arches. The Parish churches of the villages of England have neither ribbed vaults or flying buttresses, but are very firmly Gothic.
So how did this omission happen in the understanding of all these kids? The Wikipedia article on Gothic architecture had in part been rewritten by Seifkin. Vital information was missing and it had become almost entirely focussed on France. So I started working on it, with considerable opposition from Seifkin, but I was fairly determined, and he went off to work on English Gothic, which needed improving.
At this point, another problem kicks in.
I don't like ripping into an article that someone else wis working on- but it's English Gothic, OK? It means that the person choosing those illustrations needs to know what they are looking at. You cannot say "Salisbury Cathedral is in the Lancet Gothic style" and then put up a picture of the tower that was added many years later.
My response is on the talk page- "Here are some examples."
But this is a person who politely refuses to take advice or correction. Nothing that I suggested got acted upon. Nothing. It becomes hard not to raise ones voice.
OK. Then we have a different issue. Pinkerton detected, and quite rightly, that there was a piece of information in the article Sistine Chapel Ceiling that was not adequately sourced.
At this point, I have to make a confession. And it is not a humble confession, by any means.
Afte sixty years of studying that ceiling, I had suddenly discovered what the round things, generally referred to as "medalions, actually are. There are two in the Victoria & Albert Museum. They are 15th century !parade shields. Hurrah! I solved a problem that had evaded me for half a century, and which no other art historian has ever bothered to think about. So I simply gave Wikipedia the benefit of my discovery and referenced it to the actual V&A shields themselves. Yes, not an adequate reference to a written source.
But on the other hand, the matter is not even the tiniest bit contentious. There is contentious matter in the article, but not that.
Clever Pinkerton discovered it! And..... well, I thought that I was going to have my throat torn out!
So he has proceeded to rewrite the article. The first section of the body of the article has now become a total mish-mash of facts relating to Michelangelo's various commissions for the Pope, in a jumble of both sense and chronology. It was a good article. It no longer is. But everything is referenced.
OK. So what Pinkerton does at this point in time is to add a whole lot of history of the "Styles"" to the very head of the article, and a whole lot of photos.
This makes absolutely certain that the article is
too long
contains redundant information
is now presented for people who know the basics and want the specifics. The basic information has been pushed right down the page.
Pinkerton NEVER misses an opportunity to kick someone if he thinks they are down.
If you take a good look, you will find that my statement of intention to leave Wikipedia was immediately followed up by an attack by Pinkerton on one of my sources.
Pinkerton found my invention of departure to be the PERFECT TIMING to point out that he doesn't know which of the 20 editions of Banister Fletcher has been used, and it has probably/possibly changed.
This person is a cunning game-player, a manipulative enforcer, who is never wrong, never genuinely apologetic.
The manner of Pinkerton's operation is very similar to the person who was banned for sock-puppetry, but whose harassment was tolerated. The background with a little knowledge of British architecture and the functions of the CofE, and the identical misuse of semi-colons. If this is not the same person, then it is his clone.
So wikipedia can either have the game playing enforcer, or the person who writes well, is an art historian, and has been an educator for fifty years. There is no room for both.
Thank you for your time and trouble.
I have a couple of other projects that I have been doing a bit of work on in the last five years. I will simply go back to them.
Amandajm, there's a lot of history there. Would you be prepared to give me a link to the arbitration case, or the sock-puppetry ban, so I can look into what you say are similarities? GirthSummit (blether) 10:03, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
I was reported by someone to ANI board few weeks ago. He put his claims and I've put my arguments, then I didn't really check it out until few minutes ago (as no further notification).
I noticed that the report have been archived without any conclusion or comments from admin. So, I am a little bit confused about this. As you happen to be the only one to comment on that report (although not really on the issue), could you tell me what happens? or is it considered "case closed"?
Sorry to message you for this matter and thanks for your time. Cheers. Ckfasdf (talk) 01:53, 13 April 2020 (UTC)
Ckfasdf, hi. Threads at ANI are automatically archived if nobody edits them for a few days. I can't speak to what happened in your case specifically - it might be that nobody investigated, or it might be that some people investigated and didn't find sufficient evidence of problematic behaviour that made them want to intervene. I didn't look into it myself - I was there commenting on a different case, and noticed your point about the notification system, so just wanted to confirm that the point you made was valid. If the disruption has stopped, that's the important thing - are you having any ongoing issues? GirthSummit (blether) 09:25, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Actually on my last comment on that thread. I said that I will intentionally refrain myself from editing pages on the same topics as thread-starter until admin comment/conclusion. So no ongoing issue. But since it was already archived without conclusion, I am kind of left hanging there as I don't want to back on my word. Ckfasdf (talk) 10:30, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Ckfasdf, well, there has been no sanction imposed on you - I wouldn't consider that statement to be a binding oath that you can never change your mind on. It would probably be tactful to make sure that you don't unnecessarily overlap with the other editor, but provided you edit within the normal guidelines and maintain your civility, there is no reason for you to consider yourself especially restricted. GirthSummit (blether) 10:51, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
OK, thank you for the clarification. So, I can just assume admins didn't find sufficient evidence of problematic behaviour that made them want to intervene (IMO, the other option feels unlikely). One last question, should I inform the other party that his case have been archived? Ckfasdf (talk) 11:06, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Ckfasdf, I can't comment on that. Investigating disputes like that is time-consuming - I don't know whether anybody did it or not. I wouldn't see it as an official pronouncement that there is no problem, just that there wasn't a problem that was so obvious that anybody was willing to comment. If the disruption dies down, sometimes there just isn't the impetus there for people to do a lot of digging - admins are volunteers too! I wouldn't bother mentioning it to the other party - I expect they already know, since they raised the thread, no need for you to contact them. GirthSummit (blether) 11:09, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Noted. Again thank you. Cheers. Ckfasdf (talk) 11:12, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
Question about citations for «Social Interpretation» and «Critical Reception»
Hi Girth Summit, and thank you for setting a Wikipedia newb straight when learning the ropes :)
I welcome your input, and respect your decision to revert my sources, but I find the Wikipedia explanation for right use of sources a little lacking.
In the case of the paragraph I added to «Swallowtail Butterfly», when speaking about «Social Interpretation» of a film I am not sure what constitutes a «reliable source»?
The first blog I cited (Midnight Eye) is undoubtedly one of the most reliable sources on Japanese cinema online. Even though it is a review-based blog, it is written by respected researchers in the field.
I could find one article published by the University of Indiana, but it had a different angle than most online sources on the topic.
Perhaps I chose a difficult topic to begin with, given that «Swallowtail Butterfly» is an underground film, but this was the very reason I felt that it needed better info on Wikipedia.
Also, I wonder about «Critical Reception». This is a heading on many Wikipedia-pages about specific films, and they usually list a bunch of sources.
Typically it will read something like «The film was called blabla by Imdb, it was described as blabla on Rotten Tomatoes, and criticized for its blabla by Tom Mes at Midnight Eye».
Where would I draw the line between reliable source and not when it comes to Critical Reception? Sometimes when it comes to underground films, the only sources available are underground blogs.
Thank you for your patience, and sorry for writing so much.
I will surely think twice before making my next effort at improving Wikipedia posts.
Robin Syversen, hi, thanks for reaching out. So, you could start by taking a look at MOS:FILM, perhaps starting with MOS:FILM#Critical response. Also, WP:RTMC. Rotten Tomatoes is a review aggregator rather than a user-generated content site like IMDB, so is more useful for our purposes.
You're right though - writing about 'social interpretation' of an underground film will be difficult, because it is possible that traditional sources won't have written about it. I'm not sure what that University of Indiana source is - was it published? Peer-reviewed? Or just a conference paper? If it's one scholar's opinion, it probably wouldn't count as an RS unless it can be demonstrated that the author is a recognised subject-matter expert - see guidance at WP:SPS.
Midnight Eye is a bit borderline - they seem to have an editorial panel of sorts, and its hard to tell whether their contributors are interested amateurs or, as you say, respected experts in the field. If they have a significant reputation, it might be usable. The place to get a consensus on this would be the reliable sources noticeboard. You can start a thread there, link to the article you want to use, and indicate what content you want to add based on it; other editors will comment with their views.
I think you're right though - you've chosen a difficult subject to start out with! The key thing that I try to get across to people is that our mission is not to collate all human knowledge, it's to reflect what reliable sources say about a subject. If reliable sources don't exist, we don't turn to unreliable sources to fill in the gap - we remain silent. Hope that makes sense. GirthSummit (blether) 12:22, 14 April 2020 (UTC)
CVU training request
Hello Girth, can you please train me in fighting vandalism. I recently had a rollback request denied due to lack of experience. Thank you. Amkgp (talk) 05:29, 15 April 2020 (UTC)
Amkgp, hi there. I'm not sure I'm going to have time to fit you in right now - I've still got a couple of other students on the go, and the school term is about to start up again. I see that Tymon.r has a slot open just now - they're in a pretty similar timezone to me, they might be willing to take you on? Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 10:27, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
OK. Thank you. Amkgp (talk) 10:29, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm pleased to inform you that I've begun reviewing the article Cullen House you nominated for GA-status according to the criteria. This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 15:01, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
HI - I am replying to your message regarding the Gibbons P.C. page. I am an employee of the firm trying to update the outdated information on our page. I noticed the updates are being taken down, but I am only trying to update the statistics and awards/recognitions for our firm due to their outdated nature. I am not trying to use the Wiki page as a promotional tool. Please advise on how I can go about updating the page without violating any terms. Thank you.
The article Cullen House you nominated as a good article has been placed on hold . The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Cullen House for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 19:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
The article Cullen House you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Cullen House for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 08:01, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
Vaibhav Choudhary
Hi sir , Vaibhav Choudhary is eligible for Wikipedia but someone give it delete tag, so sir you can check it and take action, Vaibhav also have profile on IMDb. You can check it Therealstar (talk) 17:14, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Therealstar, hi - thanks for reaching out. Wikipedia's standards for inclusion are described here. In general terms, I believe they are more restrictive than IMDB's. The discussion will play out; you are welcome to contribute, but be sure to base your arguments on our policies. GirthSummit (blether) 19:09, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
So there is no chance of remove that delete tag Therealstar (talk) 19:12, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Therealstar, not until the discussion is over. They normally last a week, but it may take longer if there isn't a clear consensus. GirthSummit (blether) 19:19, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Stiki question
Hello nice to meet you! I had a question a about stiki. I keep getting edits from 1 to 2 years ago. So there is no vandalism I can revert. By any chance do you know how to fix this? Thanks! The4lines (talk) 15:08, 19 April 2020 (UTC)The4lines
The4lines, he - nice to meet you. Stiki works by serving up old diffs from a queue of edits that were deemed possible vandalism. Some of them are recent, some of them are old - even very old, at times. You can choose from a couple of different queues - Stiki has its own one, or you can tell it to use Cluebot's queue - I tend to use Cluebot's. In my experience (very rough figures here), perhaps about 15% of the edits tend to be vandalism, another 15% are good faith edits that should be reverted for reasons other than vandalism (test edits, lack of sources, POV, etc), and the rest are fine and can be left without reverting them, but the numbers vary a lot depending on how many people have been using Stiki - I'm not really an expert at the back-end side of it, but I guess that if a lot of folk have been clearing out the queue, it's possible that there might not be very much vandalism in there for you to mop up. How long have you been using it, and how many good edits have you come across without finding any vandalism? GirthSummit (blether) 16:14, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I have been using it since December. I don’t find many good faith either maybe every 7 to 10 minutes. Maybe I have to use it more? Thanks, The4lines (talk) 23:26, 19 April 2020 (UTC)The4lines
New message from AldezD
Hello, Girth Summit. You have new messages at AldezD's talk page. Message added 18:08, 20 April 2020 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.
Hi, I just read your message Girth, and I am extremely sorry about the last edits I have made referring to 'the job' and other problematic entries.
I did not read the whole article carefully and tried to fix some grammatical errors which I think have gone wrong. I apologize for those edits, and now I would strictly follow the guidelines. Thank you for your message.
Hey Girth, I hope you're staying safe during the pandemic. I've been thinking and I would like to at least temporarily help out as a CVUA trainer while everyone's at home. I've noticed what seems to be a sudden influx in CVUA trainee requests, probably due to COVID, and you and Cassiopeia seem to be pretty busy. It looks like Tymon.r is inactive; three requests have been sitting at their talk page from the past 25 days. I believe I've built up a solid understanding of counter vandalism -- I've encountered multiple times everything I learned about in my course (which is the course outline I would use) except for a real emergency, but I do know what to do in that case. If it's ok, I'll just start with 1 or 2 open slots to get the hang of it, then maybe expand. I hope I don't appear overeager -- if anything I would just like to help out newer editors. =) Thanks as always for your thoughtful considerations. --Puddleglum2.0(How's my driving?) 01:11, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Puddleglum2.0, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't do this - I started training quite soon after I graduated, I expect you'd make a good job of this. Can you figure everything out about how to get set up? GirthSummit (blether) 07:32, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
I think so; if I run into any problems I'll drop you a line. Thanks! --Puddleglum2.0(How's my driving?) 13:56, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Puddleglum2.0, you can find some useful resources curriculum resources in my CVUA page - feel free to make copies. GirthSummit (blether) 15:02, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll definitely use that. I've managed to get everything set up, thanks for your help! --Puddleglum2.0(How's my driving?) 21:11, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Can user pages show on google?
Dear Girth I want to know if userpages can rank on google or are excluded from google's search engines. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diveshksharmaofficial (talk • contribs) 05:29, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Diveshksharmaofficial, user pages aren't indexed, so no I don't believe they will rank on Google. Thanks for changing your page. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 08:17, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
A barnstar for you!
The Teamwork Barnstar
Practical! I appreciate ☞ ʂ℘ųཞც(talk) 04:44, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
Upmost Quality
The Minor Barnstar
Thanks again for edit of upmost quality. ☞ ʂ℘ųཞც(talk) 08:57, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
☞ ʂ℘ųཞც(talk) has given you a Dobos torte to enjoy! Seven layers of fun because you deserve it.
To give a Dobos torte and spread the WikiLove, just place {{subst:Dobos Torte}} on someone else's talkpage, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend.
I know, I am his student right now! Thanks for that. New3400 (talk) 19:32, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Request
I would like to join the counter vandalism academy. I have over 200 main space edits. Ping me New3400 (talk) 23:37, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
New3400, hi - just a courtesy note to let you know that I've seen this request. I'm busy at the moment, but will get back to you ASAP. Best GirthSummit (blether) 12:57, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello, just want to say that I will look for an different trainer, nothing personal. Thanks for reaching out. New3400 (talk) 19:01, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
New3400, hi again - that might be best at the moment. I'm sorry not to have been more responsive - I'm a teacher, trying to get to grips with remote teaching in the current coronavirus outbreak - the amount of time I have available is somewhat reduced at present! I can strongly recommend Puddleglum2.0, who I trained myself last year - if they would be willing to take you on, you would be in safe hands I'm sure. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 19:29, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm his student right now! Thanks for that. New3400 (talk) 19:33, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Belinda Nesbitt
So, the other night, while huddled in our isolation, my husband and I were watching The Repair Shop. A lady brought in a doctor's case from her aunt, who she claimed was "one of the first women fellows of the Royal College of Surgeons in Scotland". I wanted to learn more about her, but there is no article. A search brought up only a few sources. There is this, which contradicts all the other sources as it says she used Leeds as her surname, but her niece and her obit (p 162) said she used Nesbitt. Her notice of admission as a fellow is here (p 918) and then there are other snippets here, here, and here. I'm thinking it was really unusual at the time for a woman to specialize in something other than OBGYN, but am unsure that this is enough to write an article about her. I should also note that she published under B. Elizabeth Nesbitt. Wondering if you can find anything on your side of the pond? Hope all is well and that you are staying safe. SusunW (talk) 14:52, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
SusunW, hi - once again, you seem to have identified a person of great interest that history seems to have overlooked. Just last night I was in the garden with Laura talking about how little is known about the history of black people in the upper echelons of nineteenth-century British society, and your name came up. I'll look into this person and see if I can dig anything up - thanks for thinking of me.
Hope you're keeping well by the way. This is a shit time for everyone, there's little to say that isn't trite, but I wish you and your family well. GirthSummit (blether) 20:03, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks! We're good, staying put since February. I literally haven't left the house, except to go to the garden, and Les has only been out three times (banking is the only thing you can not do from afar here). Glad to know y'all are doing okay. I don't doubt Nesbitt is notable, just that we can prove it, so any help will be greatly appreciated.
You see why I write about the Caribbean so much. It fascinates me to uncover all of the international relationships and the mixing pot that the world has always been. We tend to think global economics are a new thing, but clearly they weren't. SusunW (talk) 20:45, 22 April 2020 (UTC)
SusunW, I've had some thoughts about this - I have a friend who is a retired ENT surgeon, and who did a PhD in medical history after he retired - this sort of person would be of interest to him, I'm going to reach out to see what he might be able to turn up. I thought I'd also take the opportunity to introduce you to Whispyhistory, a very prolific editor in the medical history arena, who is also friends with my surgeon pal - Whispyhistory was the first other Wikipedian I even met actually, having been introduced by him when he became aware of our mutual hobby.
Whispyhistory - SusunW has collaborated with me on a number of articles, including my one and only FA, and is a fantastic researcher. This subject seems to be up your street - would you be interested in digging further in the sources that I'm sure you're more familiar with than me, to see what can be uncovered? Laura suggested dropping Neil an e-mail as well, which we will do; if you're on the case, I'll let him know. Cheers both GirthSummit (blether) 19:36, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Sure...I have heard of Nesbitt. If you can persuade he in Sky then brilliant. I'll have a look and maybe ask a few other Scots from the Royal College. Women from that time are difficult to investigate, mainly because as well as little on them, they changed names when married. I found that with this first lady, who I first discovered in a cabinet in the RCP. Whispyhistory (talk) 19:47, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, @Girth Summit and Whispyhistory:. It often takes me a while to gather up sources to write about women. Being as this particular one has no history on my side of the pond, and certainly not here in Mexico, I'm happy for any and all collaborators who can try to help us along. SusunW (talk) 19:49, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Thank @SusunW:. Will message @BrionyH: who is keen on women in medicine and may have access to several sources. Whispyhistory (talk) 19:58, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
Whyistherearobottest?, no, I'm afraid not. IMDB isn't a reliable source anyway (see UGC), so wouldn't support notability, and I'm afraid a small part in a single movie is not enough to pass WP:NACTOR. GirthSummit (blether) 15:53, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello there. This is an invitation to join the 50,000 Destubbing Challenge Focus of the Week. £250 (c. $310) up for grabs in May, June and July with £20 worth of prizes to give away every week for most articles destubbed. Each week there is a different region of focus, though half the prize will still be rewarded for articles on any subject. Sign up if you want to contribute at least one of the weeks or support the idea! † Encyclopædius 19:05, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
Hi I'm the lead editor of List of awards and nominations received by Britney Spears! I just want your opinion, one administrator has said is that non-notable awards should not be listed on the awards page but how if add a note to the award title, it is possible counted as an already notable award or still not, I wondering too because I saw on the BTS's page which is a Featured List also do the same thing but someone always reverted and it's really offensive me. Please consider this, I'm really tired of him/her messed up with my work I knew that's nothing wrong to help but at least in a good way, also this page current featured list candidate. Johhnyfrankie13 (talk) 13:03, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
^ Indicates the year of ceremony. Each year is linked to the article about the awards held that year, wherever possible.
^The Hollywood Beauty Awards (HBAs) is the annual award show recognizes the architects of beauty in hair, makeup, photography and styling in Film, TV and Music, as well as artists who create celebrity looks for the red carpet and editorial.[1]
Johhnyfrankie13 Hi, and thanks for reaching out - although, I confess, I'm not sure why you reached out to me - celebrity articles and lists aren't really something I have a lot of interest in. If I've ever edited that page, it would just have been to revert vandalism or something.
Anyway, since you've reached out, I'd say that I agree that only notable awards should be included on the list. Something is notable if it has been covered in significant depth by multiple independent, secondary and reliable sources. I don't mean the fact that Spears has won such an award requires that level of sourcing - I mean, has the award itself been discussed in such detail? If an award has an article on Wikipedia (which has been reviewed and accepted), then it's a fairly safe bet that it's notable. Otherwise, the level of sourcing you're looking for is explained at WP:GNG.
So, with the example you've put above, you have two sources. One is the award's website itself - that's an affiliated primary source, and so it doesn't contribute towards notability for the award. The Vanity Fair article is independent and secondary, but it doesn't give the award significant coverage - the article is about Spears's outfit, it just mentions the award in passing as being the event where she wore the outfit. So, this does nothing to contribute towards notability.
If you can find sourcing that would satisfy GNG, then you could potentially add an award that we don't have an article about to the list, but to be honest it might be easier simply to limit yourself to listing awards where we do have an article. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 13:21, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Bro
Why did you delete my draft RL Studios Galaxy Luigi101 (talk) 13:54, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Galaxy Luigi101, I didn't - that was done by Deb, I just deleted the talk page - we don't keep talk pages after the page they are dependent on has been deleted.
However, since you're here... from the content of the deleted draft, you don't seem to understand how Wikipedia works, and you haven't read the terms of use (there is a link just above the 'Publish' button whenever you publish a change). You've been given links to lots of useful guidelines on your talk page, but I'll boil them down to a few basic pointers. Don't write about yourself, your studio, or anything you are connected with - stick to subjects that interest you, but that you have no direct connection with. Everything you write should be supported by a reliable source. Sources which are connected to a subject (e.g. the subject's website) don't contribute towards notability. Best GirthSummit (blether) 14:01, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Oh,thanks but I just really want to share the information with the world but Wikipedia is the only reliable source I can do that on Galaxy Luigi101 (talk) 14:19, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Galaxy Luigi101, I'm sorry, but you've misunderstood what Wikipedia is. We're not here for you to share your information with the world - we're here to reflect what independent, reliable sources say about any subject. Your own website is the way to share your information with the world. Cheers GirthSummit (blether) 14:23, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Oh thanks. I will note that. Thank you Girth. Galaxy Luigi101 (talk) 14:25, 28 April 2020 (UTC)
Hello, I'm Flalf. An edit that you recently made to User:Girth_Summit/CVUA/Flalf seemed to be a test and has been removed. If you want to practice editing, please use the sandbox. If you think a mistake was made, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. did i do it right? Flalf (talk) 18:34, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
Please stop your distributive editing. If you continue to edit distributively, you may be suffering of bilocation. —PaleoNeonate – 07:06, 24 February 2020 (UTC)
Guideline and policy news
Technical news
Miscellaneous
Arbitration
This process may take up to 7 days. Feel free to contact me with any questions or comments you might have during this period. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 15:01, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
. The article is close to meeting the good article criteria, but there are some minor changes or clarifications needing to be addressed. If these are fixed within 7 days, the article will pass; otherwise it may fail. See Talk:Cullen House for issues which need to be addressed. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 19:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
; see Talk:Cullen House for comments about the article. Well done! If the article has not already been on the main page as an "In the news" or "Did you know" item, you can nominate it to appear in Did you know. Message delivered by Legobot, on behalf of The Rambling Man -- The Rambling Man (talk) 08:01, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
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