This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.

Welcome to Wikipedia! (and how come nobody told you that before?) Since you are doing great, I won't spam your talk page with bunch of links. Thanks for taking interest in COA. Yes, things should be standartized, but no one seems to have patience to do this. But be bold and do it yourself. So far I see a very promising beginning! Renata3 00:00, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

P.S. it's very nice to see some professors joining the club ;)

Anothe welcome

Welcome!

Hello AndreasJS/Archive1, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you have any questions, check out Wikipedia:Where to ask a question or ask me on my talk page. Again, welcome! --HappyCamper 18:21, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

You can't have too many warm welcomes here :-) - hope you find those links useful! --HappyCamper 18:21, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Ancient Greek pronunciation

Thnaks for the warning — I'll have a look at this. Meanwhile I note that the same user has been active (and been reverted) in for instance Voiceless bilabial plosive. --rossb 07:53, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Modern Greek

Whose rule is it that modern Greek goes first?? Georgia guy 15:37, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Ancient greek subordination rules

I noticed that you moved my work to ancient greek, Thanks, can you help me correct it, write it in more easy to understood english ? KALHMERA Philx Philx 17:56, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the help you will give. I sustain your teory of pronounciation too.I will enter in the discussion, F.S.S.D (Filippus suum salutem dat) Philx Philx 18:54, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Ancient Greek pronunciation

Thank you for visiting Ancient Greek pronunciation. We all know about Vox Graeca. Our problem is that User:Thrax disputes the relevance of this work although it is considered a standard text. In particular, Thrax tries to convince Wikipedia readers that Greek linguists as a whole share his opinion that the mediae were fricatives already in archaic times etc. What we would need is reference to Greek sources regarding the classical pronunciation of classical Attic Greek, in particular the consonants. Apart from scolarly works in Greek, this would also include contributions of Greek linguists in international scientific journals and at international conferences that cover the subject of classical Greek phonology. Andreas 20:26, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes. He's wrong and you're right. My note on VG was an attempt to word this more politely :) I'm afraid I don't have insight into Greek works. I come to the subject through Indo-European comparative linguistics. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 20:32, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

Likewise, I'm afraid that I can't help with this one. But I note you've added a bibliography to the talk page; I wonder if any of the works listed would cover this area? --rossb 21:44, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

andreas, I agree with you, modern greek is the same language of ancient greek, in fact i have studied ancient greek on likeo and i can sya that the distance between hellenistic greek and modern greek is the same as first medieval italian(see tacito capuano) and modern italian, they are mutually intellegible using the same pronounciacion, latin and italian is a more complicate matter, because latin has never been a language spoke by normal people was only the language of litterature and intellectual speaking, so volgar latin and moder italian can be defined as same language, they had same rules same word except of declension, but italian has got too some decision. Wikipedia is, as you said vulnerable to ideoligis, ottuse ideologist who try to impose thir point of view, beta eta upslion and other were pronuced i can say, at least since 300bc as b, è, y, they became fricatives later, latin transcription are lampant examples of the correct pronounce, ex : βασιλισκος, basiliscus. ευβεα, eubeae, and so on. P.S is πατερ ημων.

F.S.S.D Philx Philx 22:09, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

DE GREACA ALLOCUTIONE DISPUTANDO

Well it is ημων because it is Pater nostrum if it were υμων it would pater vestrum that means father of you, not of us, besides this, I have contacted my anciernt greek teacher she said that eta beta upsilon and othear had to be pronounced this way in orer to understand and decifre the the speech, imagien that umon and emon are pronounced in the sameway, how can a person understand if it is us or you? It is a logical exemplum. F.S.S.D Philx Philx 22:43, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

More on ancient pronuncation

Please see my note to MATIA+. I would like to think that better documentation and more sources would discourage Thrax from his insistence on his position, but if you look over the Talk, he does not address most objections cogently. He also has some bizarre bee in his bonnet about the English, as though their view on ancient pronunciation was any different from the Germans, etc. Part of this is probably confusing between the practical teaching pronunciation and the reconstructed pronunciation, but not all. And he claims that Hatzidakis, Babiniotis, and Petrounias aren't "mainstream". If the prof. of linguistics at the Univ. of Athens isn't mainstream, who is? --Macrakis 22:52, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Hello! I have some notes from the web at my talk page, along with Macrakis notes. I'm about to take a wikibreak but I hope I'll get involved with that wiki afterwards. Erasmus' theory seems to be the majority view for the scientific community but I'd like to search more about these. Take care. +MATIA ☎ 11:54, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

It is not quite right to call the current linguistic reconstruction "Erasmian", for two reasons. First, some things are now reconstructed a bit differently from Erasmus. Secondly, "Erasmian" is usually used as the name of the practical teaching pronunciation (with phi as f etc.). And indeed Erasmus's original work on this talked about not only what was historically likely, but what is practical. --Macrakis 17:42, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Sorry Andreas I'm not a linguist, I have knowledge of acient greek from high school and some from college but it isn't my job, I'm pretty good at translating it but i'm no linguist, the only thing that I can do is finding my prof and get an explanation from him or searching something written around the web, as far i can rember, in college we red ancient greek with erasmian pronounce while the byzantine with modern ones. F.S.S.D Philx Philx 10:25, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: Mirrored airplane image

Well, in a portuguese article the airplane was exiting from monitor. I needed mirrored and manipulate. thanks, see you! --FML 11:16, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

From Macedonian

Hi there. I just answered at your comment. Please see it on my talk page. Hope to hear from you soon. Take care... Macedonian^(talk) 06:47, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Ancient Greek pronunciation again

I wondered why the talk on this had dried up, until I realised that it had been moved to Ancient Greek phonology which I didn't have in my watchlist. You might like to contribute to the ongoing debate, which is now under mediation. --rossb 00:10, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

The books in question don't seem to be in the British Library or the London Library either. --rossb 12:23, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: Translation

OK I will translate it and post it to your main page F.S.S.D Philx Philx 11:44, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Ecce Tradutionem, corrected

... I don't translate per entire the names so i put ... Here the translation, in this text, briefly appears the truth about the erasmian pronounciation. First in italian: Certamente Erasmo era stato spinto in questa occasione a scrivere De recte pronunciatione, ritengo che sapesse poco. Sembra che Erasmo abbia posto lo sguardo su questa scheda che ho, scritta a mano da Enrico.... uomo di lettere illustre. In questa scheda vi è scritto " ho sentito M. Ruggero professore di lingua greca nel collegio buslidano, mio precettore , che raccontava che, un tempo, egli avesse abitato con erasmo in un pedagogio a liensi Erasmo viveva nel piano inferiore del collegio,che fosse arrivato Glarum .... e che questi fu invitato nel collegio da Erasmo per pranzo, interrogato da erasmo rispose che (sapendo che Erasmo stesso era credulone e gli piacevano le cose nuove,una storiella ) tutti i madrelingua gerci che arrivavano a lutezia romproveravano gli umoni colti di sbagliare la pronuncia del greco antico. I greci infatti pronunciavano B vita , come beta(meaning that v was pronunced like b ) H ita,come eta (so H was like e) ai per ai(e), oi(i) per oi. Sentito ciò, poco dopo erasmo compone un libretto circa la corretta pronuncia del greco per far credere che lui fosse l'inventore dellla scoperta, e lo portò a Pietro alostes per stamparlo, il quale però, impegnato da latre cose, rifiutò, oppure stampo ò solo ciò che voleva del libretto, nessuno potrebbe dirlo. Erasmo mandò il libro da Basilea a Frobenio, dal quale fu stampato. Appresa la frode, erasmo sconsiglio agli amici sia parenti e a chi conosceva di usare la sua nuova pronuncia.M. Ruggero rese noto il manoscritto dello stesso Erasmo grazie allle formule di pronuncia di Damiano hispanese( che mi sembrano corrette) le quali non differiscono per nulla da quelle di Erasmo, che utilizzano sia i dotti che gli ignoranti di lingua greca. Scritto da Enrico corcopatero 1540 D.C

I will post english translation later cause gotta go work. F.S.S.D Philx Philx 13:33, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Here it follows english translation, the translation is senso de senso no verba de verbo, that means that is more artistic and not too attached to the text, that is as being written in latin , heavy to read and plenty of subordinate clauses, if you want the more text attinent translation it is written in italian use this as guidelin to correct my english mistakes. Surely erasmus was forced in this occasion to write de recte pronutiatione, but i sustain that he knew little about that, it seem like he looke on this text that i've got,written by enric.. in this text is wriiten :i've heard M ruggerus, illustrius litterate and man of culture professor of ancient greek in buslidian university, mine precptor and that told that, he once, lived wih erasmus in a university, and that arrived Glarus, who was invited by erasmus at luch in the universty, interrogated by erasmus he said that (knowing that erasmus himself was gullible, and affiscinated by news , a joke ) all mothertongue greek that arrived in lutezia contested all the maior litterate on how they pronounce greek, sustaining that B was prounced a vita (being written βητα, so v was like b) H ita like eta ai (being e) as Ai and oi,i, as oι. Heard this, erasmus subsequentially wrote a small essay on the correct pronouciation of greek,to make himself the inventor of that. and gave this essay to Pietrus ... to print it, who but was too overstressed by the work and refused to print it or printed a small part of it, anybody would ever know, the book then was sent to frobenius who revealed the truth about the joke, understood the truth, erasmus suggested not to apply his rules of pronunciation written on the essay to everybody he knew, bu M ruggerus, publicated in good faith the rules of erasmus thanks to Damianum hispanes (wich ruels of pronounce with me) wich rules of pronouciation are similiar to erasmian ones, and these are utilized both by illiterate and illiterate on greek language. So in conclusion erasmus publicated , accidentally the correct pronouciation rules of ancient. Written by Henric cocropaeterus (or somethin ) circa 1540 bc. In conclusion erasmus found the correct pratical pronouciation rules thanks a joke. Philx Philx 19:22, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: Spurious edits

Well there's not much you can do about it. 212.205.227.52 is in Athens, Greece and his ISP is OTENET; 195.97.35.129 is also in Athens, but his ISP is Hellas On-Line. 195.220.59.70 is from Toulouse, France and is using a computer belonging to the Université Paul Sabatier. So they are all different people - they all just share a common interest. Izehar 17:02, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: My translation

Well I wrote that glarenus lied to erasmus, and then frobenius told him that was a lie, so my translation isn't correct? Excuse me but is Glareus advocatus fuit erasmo so means tha glarenus was invited by erasmus so glarenus lied. I'm sure (excuse my presumption) that my translation it is correct, so erasmus truly invented the correct pronounciation of ancient greek, so untill 300bc b was b, h was e and so on, if i made mistakes could you please tell me where and of course i will post my translation in support to make reason thrax . Philx Philx 20:54, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Correct ! you made a point! Frobenius was lying, so the modern greek was pronouced as Glarenus told, not the ancient, i've posted something on the dibate that migth be helpufull for all. Philx Philx 21:55, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

Let's not forget that this document is much later than the events it describes. Also, without much more context, it is hard to know what its purpose and slant is. The ABCs of interpreting historical documents. --Macrakis 23:24, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

requested translation

Ac Erasmus quidem quâ occasione ad scribendum de rectâ pronunciatione fuerit impulsus, paucis cognitum arbitror.

And even Erasmus was impelled by a certain occasion to write about correct pronunciation, which I understand is known by few.

Itaque visum hâc de adjicere, quod in schedâ quadam habeo, scriptâ olim manu Henrici Coracopetræi, viri egregiè docti, doctisque perfamiliaris.

And so to focus attention on this, which I have in a certain paper, written a long time ago by the hand of Henricus Coracopetraeus, an outstandingly learned man and a friend of learned men.

Ea ita habet: ‘Audivi M. Rutgerum Reschium, professorem Linguæ Græcæ in Collegio Buslidiano apud Lovanienses, meum piæ memoriæ præceptorem, narrantem, se habitâsse in Liliensi pædagogio unà cum Erasmo, plus minus biennio eo superius, se inferius cubiculum obtinente:

It reads thus: ‘I heard M. Rutgerus Reschius, professor of the Greek tongue in the Buslidian College at Leuven, my well-remembered teacher, saying, that he had lived in the Liliese school together with Erasmus, more or less two years before; he having the bedroom below:

Henricum autem Glareanum Parisiis Lovanium venisse, atque ab Erasmo in collegium vocatum fuisse ad prandium:

Yet Henricus Glareanus had come to Paris, and was called by Erasmus into the college for lunch:

quò cùm venisset, quid novi adferret interrogatum, dixisse (quod in itinere commentus erat, quòd sciret Erasmum plus satis rerum novarum studiosum, ac mirè credulum) quosdam in Græciâ natos Lutetiam venisse, viros ad miraculum doctos;

which when he had arrived, and asked him what was new, he said (which he had devised on the way, because he knew Erasmus to be more than zealous enough in new things, and astonishingly gullible) certain people born in Greece to have come to Paris, men marvelously learned,

qui longè aliam Græci sermonis pronunciationem usurparent, quàm quæ vulgò in hisce partibus recepta esset.

who for a long time had made use of another pronunciation of the Greek language, than that which commonly in these parts was accepted.

Eos nempe sonare pro B vita, BETA: pro H ita, ETA: pro ai æ, AI: pro OI I, OI: & sic in cæteris.

Namely, they sounded in place of β vita, BETA; for η ita, ETA; for αι ae, AI; for οι I, OI; and so on and so forth.

Quo audito, Erasmum paulò pòst conscripsisse Dialogum de rectâ Latini Græcique sermonis pronunciatione, ut videretur hujus rei ipse inventor, & obtulisse Petro Alostensi, typographo, imprimendum:

After hearing this, Erasmus not long afterwards wrote his Dialogus de recta Latini Graecique sermonis pronunciatione (Dialogue on the right pronunciation of the Latin and Greek languages), of which he himself, as may be seen, was the inventor, and offered it to the typographer Petrus Alostensis, to be printed:

qui cùm, fortè aliis occupatus, renueret; aut certè se tam citò excudere, quàm ipse volebat, non posse diceret; misisse libellum Basileam ad Frobenium, a quo mox impressus in lucem prodiit.

who, by chance busy with other things, refused it; or surely he said he could not get the type laid out as quickly as he himself wished; he sent the booklet to Froben in Basel, by whom it was soon brought forth, printed, into the light.

Verùm Erasmum, cognitâ fraude, nunquam eâ pronunciandi ratione postea usum; nec amicis, quibuscum familiariter vivebat, ut eam observarent, præcepisse.

In truth Erasmus, having become aware of the fraud, never used this manner of pronunciation afterwards; neither did he teach it to friends, whom he lived with on good terms, when they noticed it.

In ejus rei fidem exhibuit M. Rutgerus ipsius Erasmi manuscriptam in gratiam Damiani à Goes Hispani pronunciationis formulam (cujus exemplar adhuc apud me est) in nullo diversam ab eâ, quâ passim docti & indocti in hac linguâ utuntur’.

Giving credence to this, M. Rutgerus brought forth Erasmus himself's handwritten pronunciation formula for the sake of the Spaniard Damianus à Goes (whose original is still with me) in no point diverging from that which the learned and the uneducated alike make use of in this language.'

[I think this is right, at least in what parts may be in question, and hope it helps.] —Muke Tever talk (la.wiktionary) 04:04, 23 November 2005 (UTC) Sorry , you are right, in fact in italian I wrote, that B sounded like vita, instead of beta, in english i have messed a bit, sorry, for that, but i said tha italian translation was the more attinet to text

Do we have a translation that all agree with? +MATIA ☎ 23:01, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

Another translation

Dear Ανδρέας,

Here is my translation. I have tried to keep it as close to the original as possible without making it unreadable in English. There appear to be a couple of small errors in the Latin:

The second sentence begins: "Itaque visum hâc de adjicere," but there is no noun for "hâc" to modify. I think that the missing word is "re," and that it should come after "de."
The date probably should read: "CIƆ IƆ LXIX," or in modern Roman numerals, MDLXIX."

And I believe that the reason why Erasmus was prompted to write about correct pronunciation is known to few people. So I have thought it proper to add on this subject what I have in a paper, written long ago by the hand of Henricus Coracopetraeus, an eminently learned man and a close friend to learned men. It reads thus: "I heard M. Rutgerus Reschius, professor of the Greek language in the Collegium Buslidianum at Leuven, my teacher of blessed memory, tell that he lived in the Liliense School along with Erasmus for two years, more or less. Erasmus occupied the upper bedroom; he, the lower one. Now Henricus Glareanus came from Paris to Leuven and was invited to the college for dinner by Erasmus. When he came and was asked what news he brought, he said (he had made this up on the way, because he knew that Erasmus was excessively fond of new things and amazingly credulous) that certain native Greeks had come to Paris, wonderfully learned men, who used a pronunciation of Greek different by far from what was accepted in these parts. 'Why, they say "beta" instead of "vita" (β), "eta" instead of "ita" (η), "ai" instead of "ae" (αι), "oi" instead of "i" (οι), and so forth.' Shortly after hearing that, Erasmus wrote the Dialogue on the Correct Pronunciation of Latin and Greek, so that he himself would appear to be the discoverer of this fact, and presented it to the printer Peter of Aalst to be printed. When Peter, perhaps busy with other things, refused, or at least said he could not print it as quickly as Erasmus wanted, Erasmus sent the pamphlet to Froben in Basel. It was soon printed by him and published. But Erasmus, when he had learned of the deception, never thereafter used that method of pronunciation, nor did he instruct the friends with whom he lived on intimate terms to adhere to it. As proof of this, M. Rutgerus displayed a rule of pronunciation, no different from that which learned and unlearned men everywhere use in that language, written by the hand of Erasmus himself as a favor to the Spaniard Damião de Góis, a copy of which is still in my possession." Henricus Coracopetraeus Cuccensis. At Nijmegen, 1569, Eve of St. Simon and St. Jude [i.e. October 27].

"Cuccensis" indicates where Coracopetraeus was from, but I have not managed to identify the place, nor his original surname, of which "Coracopetraeus" is a Latinized form.

If anything else remains unclear, please let me know. You are welcome to put my version on the talk page (which, by the way, should have as the section title "De recte Graece loquendo"). Thank you for asking me to translate this very interesting passage!

-- Flauto Dolce 23:29, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

More Þrax stuff

Thank you again for your input into Ancient Greek phonology. Of course, User:Thrax will cite Caragounis as a source for his claim that even Homeric sheep sounded "vee", as he always does. This article has to be entirely rewritten by an expert, and your help would be welcome. Before doing this, we would need some more evidence that Caragounis's hypothesis is not generally accepted, even not in Greece. When we have this, we could proceed to do seriously editing the article. Like with many other theories questioned by ideologists, this will probably need official arbitration, and we should be prepared for this. Andreas 14:02, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

I think you are being very generous to Thrax here. His theory that phonetic changes never took place in Greek seems to me about as probable as the theory that the Apollo moon landings never took place. But it would be nice to find some Greek linguists to cite. I doubt I can be of much help, there, though. Good luck. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 14:19, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

No, I'm not enough of an expert either. - Haukur Þorgeirsson 14:56, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

regarding your latest edits

I must say I am surprised. Please do explain your too bold move. +MATIA ☎ 20:50, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

You may have anticipated my surprise but I didn't expected your bold change. You invited me to join that article, I 've presented the few evidence I found etc, but you must read and understand WP:NPOV. +MATIA ☎ 21:20, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Matia, NPOV clearly states that marginal positions should be given little or no attention. Caragounis is marginal in every way. If there are serious recent sources (not 16th century or 19th century!!) for the modern Greek pronunciation, let's see them. --Macrakis 21:37, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Italian pronunciation of chi

Are you sure they pronounce it IPA [χ], not [kʰ]? Of course, neither one exists in Italian. I've queried philx on his talk page. --Macrakis 00:01, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't think so. My guess would be that they can't make a difference between kappa and chi, but maybe they try hard to prounnouce it [x]. Phlix would know, but has trouble explaining it. Andreas 00:33, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

hello Andreas

I'm afraid I cannot find any books of Symeonides or Andriotes. But I did manage to find a book of Babiniotis on phonetics (or phonology, those two trouble me), Hatzidakis book on Ancient Greek pronunciation, and a couple of other books. I hope I'll be able to write some things about those books during the next days at the talk page of that article. Take care. +MATIA ☎ 22:42, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Hi Andreas,

Not quite sure what you wanted me to take a look at with Ancient Greek phonology. I reverted the last anonymous edit as possible sockpuppetry (the editor is located in London), with a note requesting that the editor sign in, but I don't see anything untoward going on. kwami 06:32, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Agree

Yes, I can agree with you... This really is a cursed issue, but what I want is to state myself ethnically as what I want, just like every other person (or nation) in the world does. I don't mind if someone in Greece (a Greek) calls himself "Macedonian". I want we (Macedonians) to live in peace with all our neighbours (including Greece), and look in the future and leave the past behind us. I'm Macedonian and noone can deny what I like to be. Bomac 17:26, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Dear Bomac, at Macedonia (Greece) any reference to your people must be disambiguated to help the reader understand who is who. A non-disambiguated term there, would make someone to think that this article talk about MacSlavs and not about MacGreeks, if the reader follows the link you repeatedly change. (sorry for the intervention here Andreas). +MATIA ☎ 17:58, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

My dear friend MATIA, the "Macedonians" link leads to "Macedonians (ethnic group)". I don't know what's so confusable about this. Bomac 19:27, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Moldovan coffee

I wonder if we can find a good name for chauvistically-motivated names like Freedom fries and Bosnian coffee. It's not linguistic purism like, say Gyros (döner = turning), where the word itself is foreign.... --Macrakis 21:28, 21 December 2005 (UTC) revised 27 December

Greek products

This is a strange page, listing a variety of edible ingredients and foods produced in Greece. I am not sure what the point is. Is it really about gastronomy? In that case, it belongs in Cuisine of Greece. Is it really about economics? A lot of it is just puffery. I am not sure what the best thing to do with it is:

Try to merge it with other pages (Greece, Cuisine of Greece, etc.)
Improve it
Delete it

Your thoughts? --Macrakis

Yes, there are

Yes, Andreas, there is a Macedonian minority in Bulgaria who speaks the Macedonian language. They have their own organisation (UMO Ilinden-Pirin), which the Bulgarians don't like it so much caus', as they claim, it's a Macedonian organisation. Pretty democratic, isn't it? Cheers, Bomac 15:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Good sources

Thank you for all the very helpful sources that you cited and linked to at talk:Bulgarian language, Andreas. You really did you homework and then some. :-)

Peter ^Isotalo 22:28, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

I found your help there impressive, Ανδρέας. You really went the extra mile. AvB ÷ talk 21:43, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

misspelling?

You write on your user page "...al and/or physiologica systems" but maybe it is to be "...al and/or physiological systems" Carrionluggage 17:49, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

fixed - thank you Andreas 18:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Helium-Hydrogen Thing

Did I seriously say Helium was an allotrope of Hydrogen? I ment to put H2 (molecular Hydrogen) as an allotrope, because that is the only form I know of. Cameron Nedland 02:03, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Symbol + map

Yes, my friend, I really don't want to make a mess here, and I am for peacefully resolving of this issue, which, I must confess, becomes a REALLY borring one. That's why I removed the symbol and the map of Macedonia. Regards, Bomac 13:35, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Macedonia (Greece)

Hi, you were right about the whole "re-incorporated"/"incorporated" thing. I've being doing some research and you're right. I'll leave it to you to change it. --Latinus (talk (el:)) 22:42, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Just Hello

I saw a couple of your edits and I just wanted to say Hello. I saw your Babel, your name and your studies. Can you answer me on the obvious question: Are you Greek, Half-Greek or Philhellen? NikoSilver 01:05, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

First of all, I am a human being. If you ask me about my ancestry, my maternal grandmother had a Greek father and a French Protestant mother, my maternal grandfather was Greek, my paternal grandmother was Bavarian, and my paternal grandfather was of German Jewish descent. I was born in Greece, grew up in Germany, and live in Canada. Andreas 02:10, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for my curiosity, but it is a human defect. I admire your background. Nice to meet you. Any questions about me, I'd be glad to answer. NikoSilver 14:51, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Greece and Greek alphabet

Hi Andreas, hope I've been able to help. Currently I'm quite busy trying to get Arvanites out of the mud. Let me know if things get worse. Lukas (unsigned because server keeps throwing me out)

The articles Greek alphabet and History of the alphabet have references. Babiniotis in Συνοπτική ιστορία της Ελληνικής γλώσσας talks about the "Φοινικική γραφή" (p. 76) and gives more details on pp. 80-82: Έτσι οι Έλληνες τροποποίησαν, συμβλήρωσαν και, κυρίως, μετέτρεψαν το φοινικικό αλφάβητο σε φωνολογικό, πράγμα ποθ αποτελειί και την πιό σημαντική καινοτομίαα σε παγκόσμια κλίμακα. --Macrakis 17:54, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, Stavro, I put the information into the talk page. Andreas 18:08, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

You were fighting against windmills this time, Andreas! I don't represent any "Greek pseudo-nationalists who think that Greeks invented their alphabet from scratch" (sic) nor am I in any way connected to "ideologists who think that the pronunciation has always been the same". I don't even believe in creationism. In fact I first heard that the Greek alphabet was descended from the Phoenician one, in the second grade, and I haven't changed my mind since. Moreover, Herodotus (V, 58-61) states clearly the Phoenician origins; so does every respectable dictionary of the Greek language. Normally I am not writting grecocentric things about "true alphabets" but this time I was teased when I saw your quoting of the Foreign Ministry as a source on the issue. Now that I have seen your edit history I understand your need to preempt strikes from fanatics and not nationalists (because they don't do any service to the nation at all) by using "Babiniotis" and the "Ministry". Cheers, Donnerstag 02:34, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

from user:makedonas

Hello Andreas. Thanks for your answer:) E! You know many things for us then:) I like history too, but in Greece we are teaching almost only Greek History and I know little things about Quebec, Alsace etc.(wrong!) .If you read the history books of the Balkan countries, you will understand that every country through history is trying to make good ethnicists:) Somebody proposed to teach in Balkan schools one common history for all Balkan countries.:-)))))

I'll tell you another story. I studied in Sofia, so when I had to go and work in Florina's villages I understood, what old people, said in slavian.(of course I didn't said them that I understand ntopia:) When the people was gossiping in front of me they used only ntopia. Before 20 years was forbiden to speak ntopia in Florina but now its ok. I understand also that most of them don't even know why they speak so. Once an old woman, from the village I worked, went to buy some things from Bitola-FYROM (many people in Florina, go in FYROM to buy things because are much more cheeper than in Greece and its only 20km away). When she turned in the village in Greece she said to me: Today I went to Bitola for first time and I realised that, there they speak our ntopia!!!:))--Makedonas 18:33, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

thanks for the link re: Greek language etc

Thanks for that, will look at it.Politis 18:16, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Eisegesis

Thanks for your helping hand at Eisegesis! -Harmil 20:47, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Markos Botsaris

Hello Andreas, shouldtn't it be Botzaris ? On the headstone its with a sigma, but I saw it more often with a zeta. The french write it with tz to like the German Meyers, but the latter is far from beeing referential. Thanks, Gerhard51 16:01, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

The Greek is Μπότσαρης, so the sigma transsribes into s, see Transliteration of Greek into English. E. Britannica spells it Botsaris. However, Botzaris is more frequent in Google. Andreas 18:26, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Hello

Hello Andrea! I'll try to explain you some of your questions:)

First of all as I know, Monastiri was the old name of Bitola because there was living many Greeks who after the balkan wars was moved especially in the town of Florina. (in bulgarian obitel=monastery) so I suppose that Bitola is the translation of the Greek word Monastiri. The streets to Bitola in Florina, Kozani, Thessaloniki are called odos Monastiriou(=Monastiriou street). The most of the people in Florina, and I, usually say lets go to Bitola because the word is smaller and easiest to say - than Monastiri, but in Kozani they say Monastiri. Sometimes in Florina they say today i went inside Skopia.

About dopia: I know that Dopia are different between the villages. In the north villages of Florina they looks like more the skopian dialect, but in the south villages in florina they don't looks like, so much. The children knows only words, but the oldest when they talk in the village they prefere to talk in dopia. I met some very old women above 90 years old (they usualy live many years) who didn't speak Greek:)!! I don't know if they watch skopian tv or radio but I know that they have signal in Florinas plain (their TV has very bad signal in the town of Florina although it is near border - if you have 15 greek channels with very good programm I dont think they like to watch 2 or 3 skopian channels with very poor programm). I know that there is a village which called Meliti and we say that there live many philoskopians. In the festival of this village in the summer when the official persons leave, the orchestre play slavic rythms.

Before I go to Florina I didn't know even that, they were people that speak this dialect. I didn't know nothing about this subject. In my first day at work when I heard dopia I though that these people weren't Greeks, but when they talk to me greek I asked them why they speak so :) I was very impressed because I could understant them! South of Ptolemaida (Kozani, Grevena, Kastoria) there aren't villages which speak dopia.

Well about me I went to study in Sofia first of all because I didn't pass in my exams in Greece:). I d like to study in Italy or England but it was too expensive and I prefered in Sofia because was very cheap, the medical university was realy good, and a lot of Greeks studied there. On 1995 when i went in Sofia there were 6,000 greek students in the city, but when I finished on 2002 were only 1,200 - now there are even less. That's because now the Greek children can much more easier pass in a greek university. I know some Bulgarians who study in Greece, not many.

As I know Greece has very good relations with Bulgaria and fyrom. Many companies, super markets, mobile operators, shops, factories, fast foods in these countries are owned by Greeks. From the other side they prefer to come for holidays in Chalkidiki, Thessaloniki, Kavala, Katerini and there are many economy emigrants here. In Kozani and Thessaloniki I see many cars from Skopia and Bulgaria and I see that the chambers of commerce of Kozani-Monastiri-Koritsa(Albania) very often last time exchange visits and work together.

Sorry if I said too much but I m trying to practise my English too, which was in a bad situation:)--Makedonas 21:40, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Bitola article

Hello Andreas, sorry that I’m answering to your questions regarding the Bitola article a little bit late, but these days I’m pretty much busy and I’m officially on wikibreak. According to almost every source I found so far, Bitola as a settlement was established by the Macedonian Slavs that shifted in this area in the VI century: [1], [2]. Regarding the name, it is considered that the current official name have been gradually derived from the old Slavonic (not Bulgarian as some people think) word Obitel. So far, I found two different meanings for the word, the first one tells that it means a monastery, monastery place or monastery settlement and the second one tells that it means a family or house, an area of living. Very interesting fact that supports the second meaning is that the modern Serbian/Croatian word for family is Obitelj (I’m not sure for the other Slavic languages as Russian and Bulgarian):[3],[4]. Maybe the truth lies (as always) in between, probably the word means a Christian/monastery community, family:[5]. However, you can notice that this word is not directly derived from the Greek word Monastery (Obitel and Monastery as words have completely different structures). It is not very clear how Bitola was called by Byzantines, according to some sources is was called Butela, Butelion, Botila, Botili, even Pelagonia, according to other sources it was called Monastiri, but I didn’t found any evidence so far for the second option. For that reason, I think the current design of the naming section satisfies both sides, because it provides the description of the Slavic word Obitel, as well as the fact that the Turkish, official name of the city before 1913 was Monastiri, derived from the Greek word for monastery. Bitola 11:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Link

Sorry Andreas, I hadn't noticed the link.Politis 18:17, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Epeigon (SOS)

Xriazome-aste ti voithia sou, giati apo oti eida kseris kalitera galika apo oti ego! Koita, to arthro afto exi protathi distixos, meta apo kapies diorthosis pou ekana, gia diagrafi: w:fr:Macédoine grecque.

Se parakalo voithise kai kane oti mporis gia na min diagrafi!!!! --84.164.207.72 19:19, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Danke file Andreas. --84.164.207.72 19:53, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

XXX Makedonija - XXX Macedonija

Well? Should I change it or what? Latinus has a different opinion (check my talk). I'd be more interested in your opinion for the content of the userbox, though... NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 19:14, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I was trying to go along with the local. I know it's with a "k" in cyrillic but are you sure about their Latin transliteration? I think they pronounce it like "Matsedoniya"? I am not certain but I am interested in finding out... NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 21:47, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

Ok. I'll change it. Thanks. NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 22:01, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd really appreciate your continuous contribution in the Talk:Macedonians (ethnic group)#Logical paradox. Thanks for participating. Looking forward to your additional comments! :-) NikoSilver ^(T)@(C) 10:48, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Andreas. Thanks for your comments and your advice. I am currently in Romania and, unfortunately, I have too little time to answer (look at the time I am pasting this!). I will get back and try to catch up before the end of the week. Your friend, NikoSilver ^(T)@(C) 00:21, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

Andreas, you are right. One should look around too. I just feel very αδικημένος. I wish I liked reading books as much as you do, but unfortunately my orientation is in what Greeks call "positive" sciences (math, physics etc). I understand that this conversation is pointless, but there is too much that comes along with the name. If it were only that, there would be no problem. I was amazed to read what happenned to the Prussians. I just want to make sure that it doesn't happen to anyone else... As per Slovenia-Veneto, that was a little bit far-fetched, but I wanted to make Aldux (Italian) understand what I mean. He didn't. I just can't understand the "nationalist" label, when someone is trying to bring a concensus with a middle solution.

By the way, have you read the claims over "Aegean Macedonia", over the nationality of Alexander the Great, over the Ancient Macedonian Language? Over how much non-Greek the modern Greeks are? I think the following paragraph describes a little bit my theory about nationalism:

There is a new nationalistic approach around, that has the unique property of recruiting most anti-nationalist, liberal people, without them knowing it. It is a new kind of nationalism that instead of focusing on increasing the national awareness of its own people, it tries to decrease the one of all others. That way, it can impose it's multiethnic philosophy to any other nation by even recruiting local unaware liberals. This, is the most dangerous form of nationalism ever invented! I believe that people need to live peacefully, while respecting each-other's cultural, linguistic and historical differences. I also believe that globalisation is a good thing that will help most people come closer to one another. It will also help people mix and make nationalism an unnecessary cause. It is good, however, that different cultures, languages and histories exist, because a single one would make this planet a very borring place, and because diversity can help progress in different fields that better match the different local ways of life. I try to be neither the traditional old-fashioned nationalist, nor the dangerous new kind. It's just difficult to find the golden section... NikoSilver ^(T)@(C) 18:49, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Why?

Why did you do this? Apart from encouraging anon trolling, you have now mentioned Bulgarian twice and Macedonian is not even mentioned - why? --Latinus 18:00, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

a non-linguistic problem

A, Having noted a recent comment at diabetes, and having looked at your user page, it seems to me you ight be ideal to resolve an issue or two with the diabetic ketoacidosis article.

It was at one point my understanding that glucose production from disassembled body protein had the effect of competitively inhibiting a step in the lipid oxidation chain, resulting in piling up (as it were) of normally promptly consumed ketone bodies (the famous three musketeers only one of whom is actually a ketone). Prolonged sufficiently, we end up with enough of these to drive the body into acidosis, and thus DKA.

But, asssorted folks have told me differently (though they don't agree amongst themselves), and this article has persistently stated otherwise for some time, so I'm left unsure whether I should rewrite or not. As one who presumably knows, I invite you to help clarify the DKA article which is at the least dijointed if not factually inaccurate. ww 12:30, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

PS: I should note that I have a linguistic query about Greek as well, but I'll give you a rest on that one.... You'be been jousting enough, it seems. ww

A, Thanks for your prompt response. I had thought this one was worked out, dka being a large and central issue, but I may have been misinformed, wherever it was that I saw it. I await an authoritative answer, however, so we can put it in the article. Best wishes. ww 01:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Please do not discredit what you know nothing about

Hello Andreas,

I was disappointed to originally see your re-write of the Banitsa article, but truly disgusted to see you completely wipe out all information I had contributed. I tried to stay neutral for the purpose of the whole Wiki project by providing names from both sides of the "argument".

I apologize for introducing the issue of other villages being renamed but I hardly see the deletion of the entire article because of it (it simply forces me to rewrite a similar article for each of the villages that were re-named).

As for the Macedonian definitions of the terms such as "lignite" and "lentils", I don't see the problem as similar translations were provided for Banitsa (Βεύη) just as other articles did the same (ie. Zeus Ζεύς).

If you are at all qualified to write similar articles for the villages from a "Greek perspective" (seeing as the villages are now Hellenized and part of Greece) by all means, you may do so and we shall cross-link the two related pages.

I plead you to take a non-nationalistic approach to such articles that involve the "Macedonian question" as it would undoubtedly tarnish the image of such a valuable project such as Wikipedia is. If I can accept your Greek ethnicity and identity, I think the least I can ask for is that you do the same for me and my family.

Old encyclopedia

Ανδρέα, I think I mentioned before that the old Greek encyclopedia I had (my grandfather's) was still in packing boxes. But I have unpacked the boxes, and have only found old Greek dictionaries. The only old encyclopedia I got from him was a (very good) French encyclopedia, the Grande Encyclopedie (1886 to 1902). The 12th edition of the Britannica (1922) under 'Greece' starts "...The Balkan wars of 1912-3 added to the Kingdom New Greece, consisting of Macedonia, Epirus, Crete, ..." but doesn't explicitly say if they are 'provinces'. It lists 31 'departments' as of 1914 (including Salonika, Florina, etc.) -- the only one mentioning Macedonia is "Pella (Macedonia) (This prefecture was formerly included in that of Salonika)", plus an additional 11 departments in 4 post-war provinces (Thrace etc.).

Have you read any of the bibliography in Macedonians (ethnic group) (which I contributed)? I have read Danforth, but only excerpts or reviews or the others. --Macrakis 17:35, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

De-linking IPA

Oh crap! It should be Wikipedia:Manual of Style (pronunciation). I put a space instead of a colon. The idea is that, in link form, IPA characters can or diacritics can be obscured by the underline (such as with the greek mid-vowels). Besides, indicating (and linking) at the top of a page or table that IPA is being used allows the reader to click on the IPA page to understand the particular characters. Most of what I've been changing today has also removed redundancy since putting /i/ in a table that indicates closeness, backness, and rounding means you don't need to link the vowel any further.

map

Stavro, you have an old Greek encyclopedia, could you scan a old Map of Greece that has the word ΜΑΚΕΔΟΝΙΑ on it?
I know of a Britannica article which points out the toponym "Macedonia" never fell out of use among Greek-speakers. Miskin 23:13, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Did not find a map, but here's an interesting passage:

The appropriation of the legacy of ancient Macedonia by the modern Greeks belongs historically to the second half of the nineteenth century. Politis (1993:40-42) cites fourteen examples from the Greek literature of the 1794-1841 period in which the ancient Macedonians are not considered to be part of the ancient Greek world. Prominent intellectuals like Ioannis Rizos Neroulos and Adamantios Koraes were among those who shared this viewpoint.

Victor Roudometof, "Nationalism and Identity Politics in the Balkans: Greece and the Macedonian Question" Journal of Modern Greek Studies 14:2:253-301 (1996).

The reference to Politis is: Αλέξης Πολίτης, Ρωμαντικά χρόνια: ιδεολογίες και νοοτροπίες στην Ελλάδα του 1830-1880. Athens: E.M.N.E.-Mnimon. --Macrakis 17:45, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article

Hello! Given ongoing discussions and recent edit warring – and with the hope of resolving this issue – you might be interested in a poll currently underway to decide the rendition of the lead for the Republic of Macedonia article. Please weigh in! --Aldux 16:13, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Naoussa

Hey Andreas my entire family is from Naoussa and I grew up there. I have never once seen the name Negush anywhere. It has no business on the wikipedia article of a GREEK city. Also, the majority of the Roma population in Naoussa is located in Agios Giorgios. If you had ever actually been to Naoussa perhaps you would know that. Stick to your biochem and leave out your slavic Naoussa nonsense. DRMAKA 05:59, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks...

...for this. It was my addition, but I still can't find how to display/edit ancient Greek characters. Regards, NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 15:42, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Modern browsers with full unicode support will have no problem to display polytonic Greek characters as long as a suitable font is present. The problem - as often - is with Microsoft, a vendor that often defies standards. The template:polytonic was designed to overcome these difficulties. See; Template talk:Polytonic for technical explanations.

I use a Macintosh with system 10.4 that even includes a polytonic keyboard layout. I do not have any access to a Windows system right now, so I cannot make a recommendation for your specific case. In any case, as a Wikipedian, you should be promonting free open-source software, so use Firefox. Andreas 15:57, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Please refer to the title of this message again. :-) NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 16:02, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Download the Gentium font and install in (drag it into the Fonts window).

Gentium — a typeface for the nations, a freely available font including polytonic Greek support

Heading again! I installed both the fonts and Firefox (cool browser! -love the tablets)! You are magnificent! I'll see if I can do something for you in Signature shop|my shop to reward you... BTW, what is your favorite color? NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 20:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

...copied from User talk:NikoSilver/Signature shop#Ανδρέας...

Well, apparently I owe you a gift... Let me see what I can do...

Andreas ^(T)

What about ^__^ that one? Judging by your edits, I think you must probably like blue... :-) NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 21:47, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your gift. I hope that you will not think that I am ungrateful if I just put it into my showcase. The text is quite long and in my opinion, clutters up the difference displays. More importantly, the signature is a token of each user's personality, and should remain so. With kind regards, Andreas 17:09, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

:-(... there goes my virginity... I suppose I couldn't help if I reduced the size and/or incorporated your definition of your token of personality, could I?

NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 17:24, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow! Thanks for that! I had no idea you actually liked it so much! (do I sound like a 5 year old lately?) NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 23:17, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

FYROM subpage

Andrea, thanks for that, but unfortunately everybody here considers my work as irrelevant and doesn't even bother to answer my comments (like as if I am some kind of obsessed troll that shouldn't be given attention)... NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 09:37, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Category Deletion

Please visit [6] and weigh in! NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 18:07, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Greeks and martians

"Poeple with minority opinions such as voters for the Rainbow Party are nevertheless Greeks": im happy we agree on this point(though i never voted this party) thx for the support- by the way, we seem to agree on various issues, so keep in touch!--Greece666 00:05, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Andrea, sorry if I sound agitated in the deletion vote. It's not personal, nor do I suppose that you don't agree (at least in part). I just wanted to make a point for the rest of the readers/voters. I'm also thinking of modifying my vote according to Telex's (and apparently Aldux's and Lukas') more rational proposal. Btw, you've got mail!

PS: Glad to see you're using the sig! I hope you're not doing it out of pity, since I sounded like a 5-year-old... I was just trying to be funny, don't take it literally! :-) NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 00:30, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I posted a response in my talk for continuity... NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 01:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Do you have an opinion on...

...this? NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 10:12, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Ancient Greeks: will Ancient Macedonians be a sub-category? This will create another battlefield ;-) Andreas ^(T) 15:45, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

"True, but ugly today and fair at the time", seems reasonable. I think that if we show this, we have to have a huge explanation on it. Agree? NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 17:28, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Septuagint

Could you do me a huge favor and give me links to the books of the Septuagint at el.wikisource in translation to English. I have been unable to come up with it on my own and have been using the Septuagint from a non-Wikimedia site. To see and example of a the project I am working on, check out s:Bible/Obadiah/1/17. I would like to link to the Septuagint as I have the Vulgate. Also as we work on the Bible I can then add interwiki links to el. If you could help or direct me to someone who could I would really appreciate it. I followed you here from the meta discussion about ancient greek wikisource, I just realized this was not a meta page.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 14:19, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Brigitte, here is the link to the category for the biblical texts in Greek:

s:el:Κατηγορία:Θρησκευτικά κείμενα

Unfortunately, only a small portion of the Septuagint has been uploaded. I want to encourage you to upload more texts into the this database. If an Ancient Greek wikisource will ever be created, presumably everything that is here will be copied anyway. Andreas ^(T) 15:25, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for this link. Unfortunately I cannot read Greek in the least, so I would not feel comfrotable uploading anything. I am still reasearching the best files to use for different versions. So if I find a nice version of the Septuagint for easy upload I will let you know. Right not I am copying and pasting from a fancy html version but it will not work once we try to automate this project. I would encourage all the greek editors to try and keep the ancient texts at el. They can be easily seperated by categories and then you will not have to duplicate all the tedious administrative work. Plus it will be easier for readers to find what they want if it is all in one place. If greek is anything like english you have many modern translations into greek of old greek texts and it nice to be able to offer all variations together. This is all from my experience at the english wikisource where the issues are very different from the wikipedias, however if the greek wikisource community really sees a need for a split you should certainly be given one.--Birgitte§β ʈ Talk 16:51, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

wikifons grace

Macte virtute in incepta hac!--Josh Rocchio 14:43, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

POLL

No, no, no, not what you think! This time is for something that all of us need:

Improvement of the <ref> function.

Please weigh in at Wikipedia talk:Footnotes#Poll! NikoSilver ^{(T) @ (C)} 22:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

enzyme induction

enzyme induction: Not sure what you tried to do with this articles... but I reverted the edit.--Steven Fruitsmaak 22:42, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

This was a mistake, the see also was intendet for Induction (biology), a simila concept. Andreas ^(T) 23:18, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

I moved it from the "See also" to an in-text link, thanks a lot for the link! --Steven Fruitsmaak 23:43, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

AfD:Names of European cities in different languages

I notice you've contributed in the past to Names of European cities in different languages. There is a proposal to delete this article and the discussion at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Names of European cities in different languages might intersted you. AjaxSmack 18:58, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Invitation for comments

If you're interested, maybe this could be of interest to you... thought I'd let you know. Talk:Enzyme_inhibitor#Merge --Steven Fruitsmaak 18:47, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Your User name

Please note the impact of your user name on the reader almost entirely ignorant of Greek letters and language: nothing short of extraordinary! My own limited exposure to the Greek alphabet consists of whatever appears in the mainstream press, i.e. individual letters. I've made some desultory efforts to gain familiarity with the Cyrillic alphabet, enough to decode and identify names (both in my work as an archives translator and as an Israeli consumer reading shop signs and labels on supermarket shelves), but "my" Greek has remained stagnant – until now. The opportunity of seeing your signature in Greek, then Latin letters, prompted me, almost automatically, to compare the two, and to realize (to my considerable relief and satisfaction) that the Greek alphabet is more accessible than I'd imagined. Consequently, I'll be more bold in the future, and anticipate further progress. So this is to express my appreciation for this unexpected boon -- Thanks! -- Deborahjay 06:00, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Greek place names in English transliteration

For a list of keywords I maintain, I'm seeking an authoritative source for the English-language spelling (transliteration?) of geographical names in Greece and particularly Macedonia. Besides present time constraints preventing me from checking individual Wikipedia articles (as I did with Serrai > Serres), my supervisor in this project would prefer an outside source, preferably Web-accessible. What might you recommend? -- Deborahjay 06:26, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, there is no universal standard, and you will find all sorts of transliterations and transcriptions. For an overview, see Transliteration of Greek to the Latin alphabet. Wikipedia articles are the most unreliable source for this, because all transliterations/transcriptions are very inconsistent. Greek sources are also inconsistent: the name as spelled on a roadside sign may differ from the on on the official web page, etc. For your purpose, the best solution is to find the original spelling in Greek characters (very reliable and consistent), and use one of the officially recognized systems (I would prefer the UN/ELOT one). Better still, stick to the Greek version (in Unicode), because none of the transliteration schemes is fully reversible ("η"and "ι" are both transliterated as "i"). Don't use Greeklish, it is highly unscientific. Another caveat: Some place names have changed endings from Ancient Greek to Modern Greek to comply with modern Greek grammar (Serrai -> Serres). A few like Athinai -> Athina changed from plural to singular. Some places have variant names like Κεφαλληνία - Κεφαλονιά. Andreas ^(T) 13:58, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Macedonia (terminology)

Well, that'll be the first article we're not bitching too much about! :-) :NikoSilver: 22:17, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

User name

According to WP:U, your Greek-character username is not appropriate for the English Wikipedia. I would strongly (and respectfully) recommend changing it. Has no one discussed this with you yet? I am surprised. I must admit I would likewise want a username in my native language no matter where I was; have they made an exception for you? - CobaltBlueTony 19:11, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for pointing this out to me. I am well aware of the policy, only I was not when I started and I did not change it because I did not know how to do it without losing the history etc. Andreas ^(T) 19:45, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Probably best to ask an admin if you're serious about it, but the WP:CHU page might explain how that could take place. Since you've no ill intent, I can understand why no admin has insisted. It doesn't matter to me, either, but I know that many people would only get boxes instead of Greek characters, so that's a minor thought... - CobaltBlueTony 20:12, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Diabetes

Thanks for offering your comments on Talk:Diabetes mellitus. You might not be related to Shimon Schwab, one of my personal heroes. JFW | T@lk 17:32, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the enquiry. Sorry, no relation to Shimon. My Jewish Schwab ancestors came from the town of Rimpar near Wuerzburg, Bavaria. Although am not Jewish myself, I have great interest in German Jews in general. Andreas ^(T) 17:42, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

The chaps on Talk:Diabetes mellitus seem to be defending some orthomolecular position. I'm starting to wonder... JFW | T@lk 20:24, 19 July 2006 (UTC)