Template:Did you know nominations/Gary Bossert

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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by AirshipJungleman29 talk 13:31, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

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Gary Bossert

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Created by TonyTheTiger (talk). Self-nominated at 20:31, 14 February 2024 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Gary Bossert; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

  • I was suppose to nominate this by the 12th I think, but I got distracted and forgot to. If it is too late, I can nom at GAN and come back later.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 20:33, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
  • I created the page in my sandbox on 2/5, but I did not move it to main space until 2/11. So this in time. I am going to move it to the Feb 11 section.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 02:31, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
  • The hook as currently written is a bit complicated and hard to read. My suggestion would be to split the hook into two separate hooks (one for the three-point shots, the other for the free throws). Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 12:34, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
    • Does this mean that you feel the opening paragraph of the article is confusing too (since it presents the fact essentially the same way)?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:57, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
The issue here is the hook, not the article, so how it is presented in the article is irrelevant to my specific concern. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 13:53, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
User:Narutolovehinata5, I am just trying to understand why it is so confusing. It is almost the exact same text as the WP:LEAD opening paragraph. Is that some sort of wild mess or something. Is it not possible to say two things in a hook if they make sense. The scale of his uniqueness is not well represented by either single point.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 00:49, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
@TonyTheTiger: Think of a hook as a run-on sentence. It's trying to say two things at once without break, and the flow of how that is presented can be tiring. A regular reader who reads the hook may feel tired from reading it all at once. This isn't about how impressive his work is, it's about the interest of the reader. This is why I was suggesting splitting it into two separate hooks; personally, I think either by itself is impressive enough, but it's also more "bite-sized" that would be more likely to keep a reader's attention than something more winded. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:56, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
I also just realized that the hook is 201 characters and thus cannot be used. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 03:54, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
Well the limit is 200 right?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:52, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
ALT1 * ... that Gary Bossert has made the most single-game consecutive three-point shots and second most single-game free throws without a miss?
The limit is indeed 200, but the new hook not only doesn't address my original concern, but also introduces an error because it now lacks the "NCAA Division I" qualifier, making the hook appear to be a general hook. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:52, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
One could make the argument that removal of the qualifiers adds intrigue and makes the hook less cluttered and confusing.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:23, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
It would also make the hook inaccurate and even a factual error, so as written ALT1 would also not pass either a trip to WP:ERRORS or a sanity check at WT:DYK. I'm not sure what's so difficult about splitting the hook into two separate hooks as that would essentially solve the main issues with the hook regarding both accuracy and ease-of-reading. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 00:01, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
ALT2 * ... that Gary Bossert is in record books for consecutive three-point shots and free throws without a miss?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:58, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
That hook doesn't address the accuracy issue either because it seems to vague about the "record books" in question. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 06:28, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
Please clarify what is inaccurate. He is in at least 4 record books (3 linked as refs — NCAA, America East, and Niagara — and a fourth in the prose — High School) for these two activities. For brevity I just say record books than name all 4.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:48, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
It's the same issue as the above. The record books in question are not specified, so it is unclear what those records are in the hook (they're NCAA records, but at first glance they're too vague to have any meaning). It might be easier to just go with my earlier suggestion of split hooks; I cannot understand why there is an apparent insistence of including both despite the issues. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 05:25, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
@TonyTheTiger: Please address the above. Z1720 (talk) 02:35, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
  • The last point was that something was too vague. Above I stated that he is in 4 record books. A less vage ALT would be to name 2 of them, but that makes it confusing and reduces the intrigue if you ask me.
ALT4 * ... that Gary Bossert is the NCAA record book for consecutive three-point shots and the National High School record book for free throws without a miss?
ALT5 * ... that Gary Bossert has made 11 consecutive single-game three-point shots and 26 single-game free throws without a miss?
ALT6 * ... that Gary Bossert has made 11 consecutive three-point shots and at least 31 consecutive free throws?
I've renumbered the second ALT5 as ALT6 but otherwise I think either ALT5 or ALT6 are good. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 10:26, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
@Narutolovehinata5: Is this article approved? If not, what needs to be done for approval? Z1720 (talk) 18:39, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
My primary concern had been hook wording issues, which have now been addressed. A full review hasn't been done yet, so this still needs one. Narutolovehinata5 (talk · contributions) 23:47, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
Article was DYK-eligible at time of nomination (newness and length). It meets our requirements – well-sourced, neutral, free of copyvio, and I see no BLP issues. ALT5 looks like the best hook here. ezlev (user/tlk/ctrbs) 17:33, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
@Ezlev, Narutolovehinata5, and TonyTheTiger:, is there any way to make these hooks more intelligible for people not familiar with basketball, per WP:DYKINT? When promoting, can I add a "basketball player", at the very least? ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 17:46, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
Feel free to add basketball player.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 17:53, 19 March 2024 (UTC)
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