Talk:Xuanwu Gate Incident

Xuanwu Gate Incident was nominated as a Warfare good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (September 2, 2015). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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Military history: Asian / Chinese / Medieval

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GA Review[edit]

This review is transcluded from Talk:Xuanwu Gate Incident/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk · contribs) 15:09, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Only a few comments:
- Make sure you order the long citations correctly.
- Link Li Jiancheng at first mention
- Many duplicate links
- It is unecessary to put citations like this: "The sun is red.[1] The sun is hot.[1]"
- It is unecessary to put citations in the lead
- Add identifiers for the first two refs.

--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 15:09, 25 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I'll have to fail it, due to no action being taken in more than seven days.--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 23:45, 2 September 2015 (UTC)--Tomandjerry211 (alt) (talk) 23:45, 2 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion on the accuracy of standard historical records[edit]

The Xuanwu Gate Incident is still a mystery according to historical research today. It is well known that Li Shimin was trying to hide this part of his life. He ordered a lot of "modifications" to give a reasonable excuse for this murder.

It is easy to just translate the fabricated "standard" histories from the old/new book of tang and zizhi tongjian. However, some explanations are needed for the difficult parts, just some examples: 1. During the day of Xuanwu Gate incident, where were all the guards in the palace? 2. Why was Li Yuan on a boat, talking about his concubine's affairs with his ministers? It was not old Chinese tradition to talk about such personal scandals with ministers. 3. The location: the northern part of the palace was not the place for Li Yuan to meet with his ministers. Time: 5am on a boat? 5am was the time when civil servants went to work. 4. Where were all Li Shimin's men? There were not at Xuanwu Gate in the first place and then suddenly appeared at that place? Li Shimin had more than 800 people including prisoners on the death roll. How were they arranged? 5. What did he do about his father? I'm afraid that is the part that Li Shimin wanted to hide. According to old Chinese moral beliefs, murdering his brother was not the worst, but whatever he had done to his father was. 6. Probably a map is needed to show the location of different gates and lake and other places. But then it would raise more questions: Why would they even use the Xuanwu Gate? Why were the men from Eastern Palace attacking Xuanwu Gate after Li Jiancheng was killed since there were other gates, much easier to control?

And many more controversies and unexplained questions. So I feel it is very difficult to write a good article on this subject.Elainr (talk) 02:36, 4 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

So, wouldn't it be better to ignore the lore veracity, state that it is a lore, and focus on the implications of why it is part of the Chinese society myth, under a functionalist optic? Gcbwiki0 (talk) 05:34, 3 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]