Talk:Sia

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Good articleSia has been listed as one of the Music good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 2, 2015Good article nomineeNot listed
May 29, 2019Good article nomineeListed
Current status: Good article


Dan "Bernad" or "Bernard"[edit]

We spell Sia's new husband's last name "Bernad". However, there are an awful lot of sources that spell it "Bernard", including this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this and over 1,000 other Google news hits. "Bernad" has only 20% as many Google News hits. Shouldn't we at least note that other sources think it is "Bernard"? I imagine that, eventually, someone will definitively clear this up, but it appears to still be in some doubt. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:15, 13 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Autism diagnosis[edit]

I just reverted back to the last stable edit as nobody really changed anything... @Ssilvers: do you think we should make the autism diagnosis more 'standout' in the health section as it's gaining quite a lot of media coverage (mostly in relation to the film)? Also, as we know she did indeed announce it on that Twitter Space a while ago but most sources are reporting that she has only just announced it. — Peterpie123rww (talk) 12:17, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No, I think it is given exactly the right amount of ink and prominence. Sia has said, over the years, that she has been diagnosed with a whole bunch of psychological conditions. If you go to enough shrinks and say, "hey do you think I might be on the spectrum?" eventually one of them will say "yes, could be." Also, the fact that the media is a little late in catching up to this earlier "revelation" is of no consequence whatever. -- Ssilvers (talk) 14:00, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, will leave as is then. Thanks! — Peterpie123rww (talk) 14:12, 1 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

RfC about the infobox image[edit]

Should the infobox image be one of her face or one of her in a wig like she wears for her concerts and public appearances? There have been discussions about this before, but none of them have had significant participation. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 16:05, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Wig This article focuses more on her career than her personal life (as it should). Her wearing a wig and covering her face is a defining part of her professional appearance. While we absolutely should have images of her face in the body of the article, they should not be the main image. Using a image of her face would be like using an image of Kiss (band) without their makeup in the infobox. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 16:05, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wig in infobox since that's how most people know her. I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 17:33, 17 August 2023 (UTC) (cleaned up after reply function; also, I was (Summoned by bot) 17:34, 17 August 2023 (UTC))[reply]
  • Status quo. The current status follows policy and is fine. Sia stated in 2016: "I don't wear [a wig] if there aren't cameras around. I only wear this to maintain a modicum of privacy." Since that time, Sia appears in public with a wig or without (2017,2018,2020,2021,2023). Her musical persona, unlike acts like Kiss, is not identical to her public persona. As to the choice between main text and infobox, any image that is fine in the main text is find in the infobox, too. -The Gnome (talk) 18:31, 17 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It's misleading to say that the non wig image is the "status quo". I first proposed using a wig image in November 2020. The only user who commented was User:Ssilvers who agreed with me, so I then changed it. It remained like that for over a year until in February 2022, User:DrewieStewie changed it without any discussion. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 16:02, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • The term "status quo" has one and very specific meaning, JDDJS. It denotes things as they are now. Not as they were a long time ago and not as they were a little while ago. The use of the term there is exact. There is nothing "misleading" in me saying the image is the status quo. -The Gnome (talk) 15:15, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wasn't going to comment, but since my name is invoked, I must say that I don't have a strong opinion either way. I think that as long as the text is clear that she generally wears the wig in public, shows an image of this somewhere in the article, and explains that she began to do this to protect her privacy (among other reasons), then I am happy to see it either way in the infobox. It is wearying to have to argue over these sorts of things every couple of years, and I anticipate that we will all be back here again. -- Ssilvers (talk) 05:17, 19 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Wig in infobox (Brought here from WP:RFC/A) I would not mind placing the current infobox picture (non-wig picture) perhaps down further in the article. Put her performance persona in the infobox since that is why she is WP:NOTABLE.
MaximusEditor (talk) 17:05, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Status Quo Sia has been notable as a singer LONG before she began performing with the wig on stage in 2014. The first version of this article dates back a decade earlier in 2004, and her first major-label album was released in 2001. When I changed it to a face picture, the photo was from 2011. Somebody later changed it to a 2006 picture. As mentioned above, she still consistently makes public appearances without wigs or her face obscured, even on the album covers for This Is Acting and Everyday Is Christmas (album). Her stage and public persona are two separate entities; hence, a wigless picture that does not obscure her face is warranted on her article. Jeff Hardy is famous for wrestling in facepaint that became standard for him halfway through his career in the public eye, but is already so well known without it that his infobox picture has no facepaint. Just my two cents; with Sia, a wigless photograph with no facial obstruction is preferred for the reasons I've stated alongside User: The Gnome. DrewieStewie (talk) 17:38, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Again, calling the face image the "status quo" when you changed without any discussion disregarding the previous discussion is extremely misleading. I'm not going to pretend that two users agreeing counts as an actual consensus, but it's simply wrong to pretend that it didn't happen. JDDJS (talk to me • see what I've done) 17:59, 18 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • 'Wig - It is part of her notability. It also presents the least WP:SURPRISE to a reader familiar with the subject, and helps the unfamiliar understand the subject in a way that matches the body of the article. Cheers, Last1in (talk) 20:41, 26 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I feel that people voting wig on grounds of notability are clearly not putting into consideration her pre-2014 fame. Seems like recentism bias to me. Was she not notable and passing WP:GNG before she began peforming with her face obscured? It would have made more sense for the wig picture in the infobox if she performed with a face-obscuring wig from the very beginning of her career rather than so long into it. Another point I'd like to make is that by putting her wig picture in the post-2014 section of her career on the biography, the visual representation is much closer to the prose describing her on-stage persona and appearance. DrewieStewie (talk) 14:06, 28 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Status quo. Don't see an issue with the present image. Don't overcompensate on what isn't broken. InvadingInvader (userpage, talk) 01:32, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. All available photos of sia are OLD. I kinda agree with putting a photo of her where she wears a wig, but there is only ONE from 2016. Wikipedia usually uses current photos of artists, I think everyone recognizes sia with or without a wig, but we don't have that many options to discuss what is the "best". ?Silencedoc¿ 22:22, 6 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/weeklydig/albums/72157668633575731 there are other photos from that concert here which aren't on commons but could be uploaded Miklogfeather (talk) 01:01, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I've uploaded the other photos
    Sia at Boston Calling 2016
    This would be my choice for the image if there's consensus for the wig. Miklogfeather (talk) 01:41, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Almost the same image is already in the article further down. -- Ssilvers (talk) 04:24, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
That could be replaced with one featuring Maddie Ziegler, which would be illustrative of her and Sia's performances Miklogfeather (talk) 14:29, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Are there any free images showing that? I see that the ones you posted have Stephanie Mincone, Sia's other female dancer, not Ziegler. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:28, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oh, my mistake. Still one of those could be used. Miklogfeather (talk) 16:49, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
They are not "illustrative of her performances", as her most famous videos and live performances have been with Ziegler. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:52, 13 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
FYI, Here is a video of Mincone "giving birth" to Ziegler at a Sia performance and a photo of both of them. Zieger is on the left. Mincone has often been misidentified as Ziegler. When Zieger was available (she was still a minor during Sia's last tour), she did the dance solos; Mincone only did them on tour when Ziegler was not available. Mincone has also danced for Taylor Swift and others. -- Ssilvers (talk) 16:08, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Status quo / the one with her face People already know what Sia looks like. The images with the wig belong in the body of the article where it discusses her performing. Some1 (talk) 18:39,
  • Status quo Why change what isn't broken? I agree with many of the other editors here. CranberryMuffin (talk) 13:47, 15 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Known as Sia[edit]

I found the RfC to refer to her as Sia throughout the article. We should have something that explains why. Ssilvers [1] suggested we follow the identified the example from Cher, which I've now done.which I followed. [2] - Hipal (talk) 03:05, 7 September 2023 (UTC) refactored --Hipal (talk) 19:34, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It doesn't appear Sia has legally changed her name as Cher did, so the previous treatment is more appropriate per MOS:LEGALNAME(eg Lady Gaga, Bruno Mars, Queen Latifah).

Is anyone claiming her legal name is "Sia"? --Hipal (talk) 17:27, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Hipal hi, sia didn't change her name, she was born with that name. The difference is that she doesn't use the surname furler, only in songwriting credits. ?Silencedoc¿ 17:39, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, I did not suggest any such thing. You made it up. I only said that the Cher article does not use the "known monomously as" model. I don't see what difference the legal name change would make (I have no idea whether Sia has done so), and I see no reason to clutter up the lead sentence. See Madonna, both of which are Good Articles. -- Ssilvers (talk) 18:44, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
MOS is consensus. Anything else will require wide agreement. You realize that the Cher example doesn't apply for the reasons given, correct? If you can point to discussion on why Madonna is the way it is, as well as what her legal name is, please do so. Otherwise, it's WP:OSE. --Hipal (talk) 19:25, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
No, I disagree with you. I believe that you misunderstand the MOS. So we will have to wait for a wide agreement to change the status quo. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:26, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Disagreement doesn't mean we ignore our guidelines or policy. If no relevant examples can be given, there's no reason to waste further time trying to claim consensus against MOS. --Hipal (talk) 19:36, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The three examples at MOS:LEGALNAME are:

  1. Timothy Alan Dick (born June 13, 1953), known professionally as Tim Allen
  2. Alessandro di Mariano di Vanni Filipepi (c. 1445 – May 17, 1510), better known as Sandro Botticelli
  3. Ariadna Thalía Sodi Miranda (born 26 August 1971), known mononymously as Thalía

Is the first or second preferable to the third? --Hipal (talk) 19:39, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The status quo is preferable. Again, you misunderstand the MOS. None of those examples have to do with a case like Madonna or Sia, where the mononym is the person's first name. See also Aaliyah and Usher (yet another Good Article), both of which are mentioned with approval in the MOS. -- Ssilvers (talk) 19:57, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Good point. Thank you. I'll look into it for discussions. MOS also gives [[Selena] as an example, which uses the third example from above. --Hipal (talk) 20:38, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, your argument is definitely WP:OSE. Clearly either way is correct, and equally clearly there is no consensus here to add the more cluttered alternative. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:51, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, MOS brings up the issue of clutter, though the examples aren't similar. --Hipal (talk) 20:53, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I've asked at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Biography#First_name_mononym if there's a general consensus for an introduction. --Hipal (talk) 20:59, 7 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Categories[edit]

Did Sia first gained notability before or during the 21st century? One of my edits on the categories has been reverted and I'm not that familiar with her. Thedarkknightli (talk) 01:29, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

She was not notable before the 21st century. -- Ssilvers (talk) 02:17, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your timely reply, @Ssilvers! Then this category should be removed, right? I'm not that familiar with the rules on Wikipedia. Thedarkknightli (talk) 02:54, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't know much about the rules re: categories, and I don't care much about them. -- Ssilvers (talk) 17:43, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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