Talk:Jingjiao Documents

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Untitled[edit]

Some sutras seems not in the articles. The 7 Chinese texts are:

序聽迷詩所(訶)經/救世主彌賽亞經
一神(天)論(一天論第一, 喻第二, 世尊布施論第三)
大秦景教宣元(至)本經
大秦景教大聖通真歸法贊
志玄安樂經
大秦景教三威蒙度贊
尊經

This page give another English names of the texts: Chinese Nestorian Documents from the Tang Dynasty Darwinwdy327w 17:43, 29 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion of manuscript titles[edit]

I'm an American living in Japan and have taken an interest in the history of the ancient church in China and the Far East. I have learned much about the Jesus Sutras, the ancient Chinese Christian manuscripts from the Luminous Religion (Jing-jiao) produced in Tang-dynasty China. In fact, I was able to view the four Jing-jiao manuscripts owned by the Kyou Shooku Library when they were put on public display in a special exhibition in 2010.

I found this Wikipedia page in June 2012 and saw some problems in the list of sutras. One sutra is missing from the list, while another was identified with the wrong Chinese title. The original list of sutra titles placed on this page in 2005 was taken from Martin Palmer's book, but after many edits to the page, most of these titles were altered. Palmer's titles are not literal translations of the Chinese titles, and this has caused some confusion to later editors of this page (in particular the text Palmer named Sutra of Origins, which is different than a separate text named by other scholars as Sutra on the Origin of Origins). In my corrections to this page, I have chosen not to change any titles, but I did have to add some titles and correct some misidentifications. However, it should be pointed out that this list of titles as they have stood for the past few years does not conform to any particular list in any expert's book: the list is a hodgepodge of different editors' contributions. Below are the English titles of these manuscripts as they appear in the books of three scholars (Chinese titles are added by me for reference; Palmer's book does not contain titles in Chinese characters).

From Martin Palmer (2001):

Sutra of the Teachings of the World-Honored One, Third Part (or Lokajvesta [Buddha as World Teacher] Teaching on Charity, Part 3) (世尊布施論第三).
Sutra of Cause, Effect, and Salvation (or First Treatise on the Oneness of Heaven) (一天論第一).
Sutra of Origins (or Second Part of the Preaching) (喻第二). (Palmer does not give a title to the Tomioka manuscript which contains these three texts).
(One manuscript was not included by Palmer in his book. P. Y. Saeki named it Sutra on the Origin of Origins (大秦景教宣元本經), not to be confused with the above sutra with a similar English name.)
Sutra of Jesus Christ (序聽迷詩所經).
The Supreme (or Christian Liturgy in Praise of the Three Sacred Powers) (大秦景教三威蒙度贊).
Let Us Praise (or Invocation of the Dharma Kings and Sacred Sutras) (尊經).
Sutra of Returning to Your Original Nature (or Sutra of Subtle Peace and Happiness) (志玄安樂經).
Da Qin Christian Liturgy of Taking Refuge in the Three (or Taking Refuge in the Trinity) (大秦景教大聖通真歸法贊).

From Li Tang (2002):

Sermon of the Lord, Part III (世尊布施論第三).
On the One Heaven, Part I (一天論第一).
Parable: Part II (喻第二). These three texts contained in: On the One God, Part III (the Tomioka manuscript, 一神論巻第三).
Book on Declaring the Origin of the Jing Religion of Da Qin, or Book Declaring the Origin of Origins (大秦景教宣元本經). (Kojima manuscript B is entitled: Book on Declaring the Beginning Reaching the Origin of the Jing Religion of Da Qin, 大秦景教宣元至本經).
Book of Jesus, the Messiah (序聽迷詩所經).
The Mighty of the Three Receiving Great Praises, or Great Praises Received by the Three Majesties of the Jing Religion, or Gloria in Exclesis Deo (大秦景教三威蒙度贊).
Honored Persons and Sacred Books (尊經).
Book on the Mysterious Peace and Joy (志玄安樂經).
Praise to the Transfiguration of the Great Holy One (大秦景教大聖通真歸法贊).

From P. Y. Saeki (1951):

The Lord of the Universe's Discourse on Almsgiving (世尊布施論第三).
Discourse on the Oneness of the Ruler of the Universe (一天論第一).
Parable, Part II (喻第二). These three texts contained in: Discourses on Monotheism (the Tomioka manuscript, 一神論巻第三).
Ta-Ch'in Luminous Religion Sutra on the Origin of Origins (大秦景教宣元本經).
Jesus Messiah Sutra (or Hsu-ting Messiah Sutra) (序聽迷詩所經).
Nestorian Motwa Hymn in Adoration of the Holy Trinity (大秦景教三威蒙度贊).
Book of Praise (尊經).
Sutra on Mysterious Rest and Joy (or Sutra Aiming at Mysterious Rest and Joy) (志玄安樂經).
Nestorian Hymn in Adoration of the Transfiguration of our Lord (大秦景教大聖通真歸法贊).

An additional list of titles can be found at the web site of Cardiff University, which is presently in the process of making a new translation of the Jing-jiao manuscripts: http://www.caerdydd.ac.uk/clarc/projects/chinesenestorian/index.html

JingjiaoFan (talk) 04:06, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Categorization[edit]

This article should also be considered for inclusion under Buddhism and Taosim. Properly read and understood, these Sutras are a measured inter-mingling of these three spiritual traditions. Dshafer (talk) 23:46, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The opening sentence is wrong[edit]

The first sentence of the article is incorrect It now reads, "The Jesus Sutras are early Chinese language manuscripts of Christian teachings. " It should read, "The Jesus Sutras are early Chinese language manuscripts of s blend of Taoist, Buddhist and Christian teachings."

(See ^[1] and other books on this subject. Dshafer (talk) 23:46, 9 November 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Moore, Thomas (ed.) The Lost Sutras of Jesus: Unlocking the Ancient Wisdom of the Xian Monks

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[1] Moore, Thomas (ed.) The Lost Sutras of Jesus: Unlocking the Ancient Wisdom of the Xian Monks

[1]