Talk:Jellyfish

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Good articleJellyfish has been listed as one of the Natural sciences good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 11, 2018Good article nomineeNot listed
October 14, 2018Good article nomineeListed
Did You Know
A fact from this article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "Did you know?" column on November 28, 2018.
The text of the entry was: Did you know ... that jellyfish can disable power stations?
Current status: Good article

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Jellyfish/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Cygnis insignis (talk · contribs) 15:00, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Reviewer's opening statement[edit]

I'm opening a review of this article and mentioned this to the co-nominators, they have agreed to my first attempt at this. An important subject, the page is already useful, interesting and there are substantial contributions. I've read through three times, and see some areas for improvement, but generally think the page is able to satisfy the six criteria in a reasonable time-frame.

The first thing I want to ask contributors is the scope of the article, though it is obvious in some senses, some ways it might be used by readers. If I can get a feel for the article's criteria for inclusion, for example, I can see how that accords with GA criteria and what I know about content, guidelines and policy. — cygnis insignis 15:00, 10 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Well, it's a good point. Wikipedia has some taxa under their scientific name and some under their common name, and the two do not necessarily line up. In this instance, the first sentence sums up what we are trying to cover "A jellyfish is the informal common name given to the medusa-phase of certain gelatinous members of the subphylum Medusozoa, a major part of the phylum Cnidaria." The article Medusozoa and the articles for the included groups can deal with those groups more fully. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:09, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Good, then we are probably in accord on what it can and can't do. The lead worked for me, and providing access (navigation) to deeper or more specific topics is one important function of an article under a common name. A pitfall of similar articles can be the accumulation of contributions, jellyfishy facts, but there seems to be a lot of thought put into coherent organisation, discretion, and thresholds of notability in this case. — cygnis insignis 12:09, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Query on protocol: a tool showed there was a substantial contributor and custodian of the article who doesn't seem active, should I alert them anyway? — cygnis insignis 12:09, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If there are any editors actively "looking after" the article they must be aware of our activities and presumably this GA nomination. I have never felt it necessary to alert such editors but they are welcome to contribute to the review if they wish. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 12:33, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Regarding one point, they would not be aware of discussion on a GA subpage unless they watch it. I can't remember the last time I had to click 'watch' and forgot it was not automatic, because of this quirk it may be desirable to notify interested users and projects. cygnis insignis 15:55, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Items[edit]

done
  • "… a symbiotic relationship with ten different specifish" error, widowed adjective or portmanteau?
  • This is generally fine, but another look at what applies to 'jellyfish' as a group and the results of studies of one or several species. eg. When a BBC science story uses the term, I see a claim to notability for inclusion here, though it should link back to the source and out to expansive discussion in the specifish [specific 'jellyfish'] articles.
  • I think it was an error and I have corrected it. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:28, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I struck my attempt at levity as unhelpful, because I now don't know what you corrected. cygnis insignis 11:22, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Jellyfish are the most energy efficient swimmers of all animals." 'extraordinary claim', so some qualification is needed. I read into this line of enquiry and thought the copy here may have overstepped what was claimed in the refs, but see there is serious efforts to exploit the discovery for technological innovation. As above, locomotion section could mention the taxa in study.
  • Immortality discussion. Better secondary source or more caution. [As with other biota labelled as immortals and methuselahs, the details rest on definitions of individual.]
  • Or the definition of immortality. I have commented out the bit about humans. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:28, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • The note to sea jellies at the beginning of lead. The ref is cute, and could perhaps be worked into etymology instead. The other name, jellies, should that be mentioned at outset? Finding other references for decisions about common names would be challenging.
  • We haven't got an etymology section at the moment. I could add a source like this one to the lead, or we could leave it as being a well-known fact not needing a reference. Actually, in the UK I have only heard "jellyfish" used and I imagined that "jellies" was an Americanism, however I see that the Smithsonian mentions "jellies" but gives precedence to "jellyfish". Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:57, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • A section like that could be tedious to compose, and the value questionable, but I tend to expand on names in a section to keep it out of the lead. Refs in lead sections are often symptoms of deficiencies in the body text. Not seeing a problem here though, and will leave it to your discretion. cygnis insignis 11:37, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oh, and don't need to create the section, already there: Jellyfish#Etymology cygnis insignis 16:39, 11 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I have done that. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:47, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I though[t] there was some value in reviewing how The Library of Congress subject heading: Jellyfishes is classified when I looked at the wikidata item.
Well, I looked at that page before but could not think of any way to use it. One of the "sources" mentioned was a Dec. 28, 2010 version of the Wikipedia article. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:23, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Not really an actionable item, pardon that, though it is helpful to see how major catalogues fit this term into their systems as a constraint on the scope of this page. cygnis insignis 14:10, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]


  • "An unusual species, Turritopsis dohrnii, formerly classified as T. nutricula, …" unclear when abbreviated (without viewing link)
This one is correct, as it's the second mention of Turritopsis in the same sentence. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:31, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No, it is ambiguous. I can explain when to abbreviate the genus if you are unsure. cygnis insignis 16:43, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Have it your way. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:45, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We all wish for that :) This is a matter of clarity and accepted style. cygnis insignis 16:56, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The change has already been made. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:06, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
pending
  • The "paraphyletic group" template should be [removed or] replaced with an infobox. [amended]
Are you referring to the taxobox at top right? I'm not sure what such an infobox would look like. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 17:23, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, top right, though it is not a taxobox. The resemblance is intentional, that is one of my concerns. There is an infobox example at Whale with rather awkward wording, but less misleading. cygnis insignis 21:30, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Chiswick Chap: Do you have any views on this? Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:29, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well, this is more a matter of policy than anything for GA (it's no part of the 6 criteria). Whale's pseudo-taxobox isn't a pretty example to follow. Personally I'd rather either leave it as it is, or do without altogether. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:10, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I see that the option to remove it has been struck, without explanation; we don't have to agree to that, but let's see if we can make this work. I've set up a simple infobox that makes clear this isn't a taxon. It's plain and truthful, and these may be useful virtues here. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:58, 13 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I missed this reply and thought I was waiting for it, apologies for that. The scope of the article has come to include content that ought to [be] elsewhere, a situation that is [the] result of the way redirects were pointed [away from] articles defined by biological taxons. What you have done is appropriate, and better redefines the scope: it follows that much of content belongs in articles on taxons. It would be a shame to sully the austere beauty of Medusozoa, but that seems the obvious target, and it avoids a lot of laboured qualification about whether a characteristic or fact refers to 'jellyfish'. Whale had what was a pseudo-taxobox, so did this, the infoboxes are about the intersect of a common name with another taxonomy. I haven't struck the option to remove any sort of box, I inserted that option when you mentioned it and I realised I had forgotten to include it,—ie. [insertion] removal—the editorial comment (explanation) was "[amended]" (ie. added) — cygnis insignis 07:04, 17 August 2018 (UTC) [some missing words] — 13:28, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OK. I think the taxonomy and phylogenetic tree (with red bar) are necessary to define the scope of the article. Beyond that, the account of jellyfish anatomy, behaviour, etc seems basically appropriate to this article. What are you thinking should be moved to taxon articles? Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:16, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure what the descriptor of that tree is, syllogistic? This article is listed under GA/biology, and marked as highest importance by projects that use accepted names, yet apart from the ref to the 'bewildered' scientist's discussion about jellies that was given in a note at the beginning there is nothing to suggest the common name 'jellyfish' has a meaningful correspondence with biological taxonomy. The scope can only be organisms that might be called 'jellyfish', not imply it is a clade to brace up a licensed premise. — cygnis insignis 13:26, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, the section (and the tree) explicitly state it is not a clade, and show exactly why that is. On the application of the name jellyfish to various groups such as Scyphozoa/true jellyfish, the section explicitly gives the correspondence of Latin and English names, and provides citations in the text and in the table. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:25, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The approach is not supported by the sources, and even in a [non-systematic] taxonomy the term becomes incoherent. The intersect includes and excludes that might be labelled 'Jellyfish'. The common name is not a lot of other things too, to emphasise the point, so how is this even notable. cygnis insignis 06:30, 20 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have extended the tree and the text to explain that "jellyfish" is not a clade, and is defined differently by different authorities. I have indicated the groups that have reliably been called "jellyfish" by at least one authority in boldface, supported by citations in each case. I hope this resolves your objection. The tree is a conventional phylogeny (i.e. of clades), overlaid with "jellyfish" labels, which can be seen to be scattered somewhat arbitrarily with respect to the phylogeny. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:24, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for letting me know, I need to remember to watch articles I have not edited (a feature of sub-paged discussions). The first thing I noticed was a ref name error was thrown up, multiple definitions or a bit of lint (I don't know because I didn't look at the code because I'm not editing the article). cygnis insignis 15:42, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks, fixed. Actually, reviewers are welcome to fix minor errors that they find, it's often far more efficient than trying to direct editors' attention to exactly the right spot. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:31, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

That seems sensible, it is my first impulse. Don't be shy to revert me if I boldly break something, or change the intention. cygnis insignis 16:50, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Cygnis insignis: the fixes made in response to Snjón's 'On phylogeny' comments below have updated and simplified both the Taxonomy and the Phylogeny sections. These changes should put to rest your discomfort with these sections. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:06, 29 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
My response would be very similar to the concerns I have already outlined, and I am very reluctant to link policies, guidelines and criteria in discussions with established users.

And again, your second statement is problematic: 'my discomfort'… . Though it's understandable when users have a lot of investment in content, please desist from making implications. I will remove any clear incivility from further discussion. —cygnis insignis

Cygnis insignis: Nothing like that was implied by the descriptor, simply that in my view the matter you raised had been put to bed. I am sorry both that you felt it was uncivil, and that your concerns have in your view not been addressed. Further, since you mention possible incivility, "a lot of investment in content" is a phrase certainly capable of being interpreted as having "implications"; we have not taken offence at that, but other editors easily might have. Since we have, through Snjón's unsolicited intervention, actually had a second opinion from an experienced biology editor, and since the article now reflects Snjón's recommendations in full, I should have thought it appropriate for you now to give way on whatever may remain of your concerns.
I do not understand your "My response would be very similar", given that the Taxonomy and Phylogeny sections that you raised the concerns about are now very different, and compliant with independent third-party opinion.
I have however read through what you wrote again, and have rearranged the material as a 'Mapping to taxonomic groups' to make it clear that that is the intention, i.e. to describe the position for an informal but widely recognised grouping; the sub-headings like 'Non-medusozoa sometimes called jellyfish' already in use reinforce that message. If lack of clarity about that mapping from informal to formal was your concern, then this change should allay it.
As for your "very reluctant", it would be best if you explicitly identified the exact GA criterion you are talking about in any review item like this one, so that we can see what if anything remains to make the article compliant with that criterion. At risk of repeating myself, I believe that the taxonomy and phylogeny sections are now fully compliant with all six criteria. Well written? we think so. Verifiable: yes. Covering the topics: yes. Neutral: surely. Stable: changed only in response to review comments. Illustrated: yes. Chiswick Chap (talk) 06:09, 1 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
a) Impolitely or not, I acknowledged you have a substantial investment in this 'living thing (in culture)' article, that excuses some abrupt or impatient responses. You are also a more experienced reviewer, at GA anyway, but I see no evidence this is not an article with substantial amounts of original synthesis, so my assessment according to the GA criteria would be very different. The first element, the infobox, no longer contains a linked assertion to 'scientific classification', that is a great help to someone attempting to read the page and understand the scope.
There is no original research, or indeed synthesis, in the article; all claims are cited to reliable sources, and there is no editorialising. On what appears to be your key question of what a jellyfish is, reliable sources are used throughout and all the opinions given are fully attributable to them. There is in fact very substantial agreement on the question among the cited authorities, with some looseness around the edges of the concept (salps, comb jellies) as is the case with pretty much all concepts, but none of that is down to the editors. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:05, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
b) Consider, as a reviewer, how you might regard a similar treatment of potential articles in pages like Simulacraceae (a redirect) or Blackbutt (disambig and incomplete SIA). As a title, jellyfish could function as they currently do, directing readers to content at another page, as it does at Jellyfish (disambiguation). As for the unsolicited view 'on phylogeny', I think I recognise that rationale from a wiki discussion that determined that while Aves are assigned to Reptilia, birds are not reptiles and that fact must be expurgated from wikipedia articles. General readers and seven year olds would be fairly confused by that classification, because it is wrong. This page title is a vague common name that may refer to accepted descriptions, circumscriptions, clades, classifications and living things that foul ship's engines and swimming beaches. cygnis insignis 03:55, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well, it is Wikipedia policy and tradition to have articles on commonly recognised types of animal, which Jellyfish certainly is, and many such articles (e.g. Whale) are Good Articles, living alongside articles on the roughly-corresponding clades (e.g. Cetacea). Cwmhiraeth and I have edited many hundreds of Good Articles, including numerous animal groups, some of them like Wasp again living alongside the nearest clade, Apocrita. Frankly, readers expect to be able to find detailed coverage of major topics, rather than being redirected.


What we need now is to reach consensus, which isn't happening through general discussion such as that above. If you could please give us directly-actionable comments, each directly on one of the six GA criteria, like 'Please wikilink "Hydrozoa" in the section "..."', then we'll get there. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:01, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I am in general agreement with Chiswick Chap. For the general reader who wants to know a bit more about jellyfish, this page should serve. For the specialist reader there are Scyphozoa, Medusozoa and other articles. Since the scope of this article seems to be the problem, perhaps this review should be concluded; if you think the article meets the GA criteria you can pass it or if you think it does not, you can fail it, specifying which criteria it does not meet. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 08:52, 5 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Cygnis insignis: The middle course is to accept the definition and mapping, which is well supported by the sources, and to make any further comments on the six criteria so we can close them out and reach consensus. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:08, 8 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Well, it is Wikipedia policy and tradition to have articles on commonly recognised types of animal, which Jellyfish certainly is, and many such articles (e.g. Whale) are Good Articles, living alongside articles on the roughly-corresponding clades (e.g. Cetacea)."
It is clear this is an individual's point of view, not a neutral one, incidental mentions of a common name in journals, news outlets, and the humorous blog is synthesis. This article's scope is not defined by sources, the surprising evidence is that an experienced editor is seeking and interpreting sources to bolster a fork from accepted classifications, to produce another pseudo-biological article for 'general readers' in the "commonly recognised types" taxonomy detailed in the template and article named "Living things in culture" (which I will re-review). The relevant criterion is NPOV, any other evaluation of content (some good) is moot when then scope is whatever one interprets it to be, I don't know what policy Chiswick Chap thinks supports a parallel set of articles, or what 'tradition' they are following, and remain deeply sceptical there is a basis other than 'somebody else did it'. I have been directed to accept a middle ground, by this editor, co-contributor (and a GA reviewer), but I intend to fail this article and open up the can of worms. cygnis insignis 08:48, 11 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Drive-by comment[edit]

Why is there a subheading "Medusa" in the Anatomy section if all the text is under that one subheading?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:06, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Removed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 05:56, 17 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • My apologies, I will try again: Cygnis insignis, I am a bit perplexed by this review. It does not seem as if you are reviewing whether the article meets the six GA criteria. If there are problems with meeting the criteria, please advise and we will be happy to fix them. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:38, 21 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
And my apologies, I recognise that GA reviews are usually a tweaking process. IMO, the policy concerns underpin the application of criteria, they are linked in the guidance and definition. Obviously they can't be ignored, but I believe there is a very good and useful article amongst the content that is miscast or displaced, eg. the paraphylectic taxobox (now improved). Similar content is being discussed with the other contributor, so my part in that is holding up the review; apologies for that too. All this is simple and fixable, though a GA reviewer of similar articles could be called for an opinion (or take over the review). cygnis insignis 05:49, 22 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

On phylogeny[edit]

The current cladogram presented in the Phylogeny section is outdated (implicating the Taxonomy section as well), with statements in text, mainly that both Anthozoa and Scyphozoa are not monophyletic, contradicted by subsequent research[1][2]. Other clades have also been negligibly reassembled, here's a slightly altered cladogram from the second reference:

Anthozoa

Octocorallia

Ceriantharia

Hexacorallia

Polypodiozoa

Myxozoa

Medusozoa
Acraspeda

Staurozoa

Rhopaliophora

Cubozoa

Scyphozoa

Discomedusae

Coronatae

Hydrozoa

Aplanulata

Siphonophorae

Leptothecata

Filifera

Limnomedusae

Narcomedusae

Used, thank you. A most helpful suggestion. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:44, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The current form of the supposed phylogenetic tree might raise some doubts about the structure and even usefulness of this section, as by the inclusion of tunicates and ctenophores. Such changes alter the (initial?) intended purpose, that of where do jellyfish fall on a phylogenetic tree of the Cnidaria. General readers will not intuitively understand the differences between a phylogenetic tree and a cladogram, likely inferring incorrect monophyletic relationships from whatever is presented; a reading that can nevertheless be pre-empted in text. Some confusion might be further generated due to the structure of the rest of the article, i.e. as cnidarian-oriented, and specifically medusozoan - which is stated in the very first sentence of the lead. The inclusion of said groups can perhaps be arranged as jellies and salps relative to both jellyfish dispersed within Cnidaria and to other animals in a broader scale, with a second simplified cladogram of the kind:

Animalia

Porifera

Ctenophora (comb jellies)

Cnidaria (includes jellyfish and jellies)

Bilateria

Protostomia

Deuterostomia

Ambulacraria

Chordata

Tunicata (includes salps)

Vertebrata

Part of the point being that these animals are neither jellyfish (nor medusozoans, nor cnidarians - at all) nor will they be further mentioned in the article. Inherent ambiguity in these terms cannot be avoided, but it ought to be manageable if this article is to pedal towards the desired status. I hope this is useful. Snjón (talk) 17:10, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it will be simpler to split the trees. I've done that now. And updated the Medusozoa. The result is clearer and simpler, and more up to date, so it's better all round. Many thanks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:43, 28 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Zapata, Felipe; Goetz, Freya E; Smith, Stephen A; Howison, Mark; Siebert, Stefan; Church, Samuel H; Sanders, Steven M; Ames, Cheryl Lewis; McFadden, Catherine S; France, Scott C; Daly, Marymegan; Collins, Allen G; Haddock, Steven H. D; Dunn, Casey W; Cartwright, Paulyn (2015). "Phylogenomic Analyses Support Traditional Relationships within Cnidaria". PLOS ONE. 10 (10): e0139068. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0139068. PMC 4605497. PMID 26465609.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)
  2. ^ Kayal, Ehsan; Bentlage, Bastian; Sabrina Pankey, M; Ohdera, Aki H; Medina, Monica; Plachetzki, David C; Collins, Allen G; Ryan, Joseph F (2018). "Phylogenomics provides a robust topology of the major cnidarian lineages and insights on the origins of key organismal traits". Bmc Evolutionary Biology. 18. doi:10.1186/s12862-018-1142-0.{{cite journal}}: CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (link)

GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:Jellyfish/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Dunkleosteus77 (talk · contribs) 20:02, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]


Comments by Dunkleosteus77[edit]

Added sections on both of these. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:07, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's mentioned in the second sentence. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:50, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done all the ones I noticed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:29, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Removed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:50, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:50, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:50, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:29, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:29, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:29, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:50, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You should probably stick with the common names “stalked jellyfish” and “true jellyfish.” People’s brains are just gonna skip over “Staurozoa” and “Scyphozoa” and they look too similar so they’ll just be confused   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  00:20, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done where appropriate. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 10:50, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for taking on this review. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:29, 3 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

More comments[edit]

Or 3 days later   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:28, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. I always hope to slip in an 'is comprised of' to trigger a bit of AWB in such instances ;-} Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:20, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Glossed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:43, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:19, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • wikilink septa
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:06, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:39, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I tried moving the Anatomy section to before the Taxonomy section and that had its disadvantages too. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:39, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No I mean move the last 2 paragraphs in Anatomy to the top   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:53, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Added. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:16, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:01, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't understand the Diversity section's purpose. Is it about size because it goes off topic with fission and lifespan and so forth?   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:28, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Called it 'Largest and smallest' which seems to describe its function and content well. Within that scope it seems well focussed, i.e. some forms are small but only short-lived, etc. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:28, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Since you measure the lion's mane jellyfish in meters you should probably give Nomura's jellyfish in meters too   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:28, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:39, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Up with which we will not put! Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:41, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's archived inside the ref. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:08, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • On the third mention of planula, you italicized and wikilinked it, and you also wikilinked Scyphozoa in the Life cycle section   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  17:28, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:39, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Also, use true jellyfish   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:53, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The term is already mentioned as a gloss for Scyphozoa in the tree and in the taxonomy section, which should be sufficient.
Glossed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:38, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • You wikilink fission on second mention
WL first instance. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:57, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed, I think. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 09:39, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:12, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:25, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Gone. Chiswick Chap (talk) 17:58, 7 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It's accurate, explains something very surprising, and shows what needs to be shown. Not sure what else a science diagram should be, really. We can say "vertical section through the bell" or "sagittal section" if that would help. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:08, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No I mean aesthetically, but it’s not a problem for GA   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  21:41, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've tarted it up a little.

Even more comments[edit]

Not sure what that might be referring to. We've mentioned Craspedacusta sowerbii which turned up in a canal in England (from China) recently. Chiswick Chap (talk) 19:08, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Looking it up, I was thinking of Jellyfish Lake   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  21:41, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Added. Chiswick Chap (talk) 00:24, 9 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Meant for you to put that in the Diet section   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:52, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
???
You say all jellyfish are carnivorous and then there’s this one that’s not   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  18:48, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Mastigias eats plankton, so it's not an exception.
Being omnivorous, the statement “jellyfish are carnivorous,” implying all are, is false   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  01:35, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well an impeccable source boldly uses "All", actually. The point is that the stinging cells paralyse or kill wriggly animals, which are their prey. Brusca, Richard (2016). Invertebrates. Sinauer Associates. p. 296. ISBN 978-1-60535-375-3. All cnidarians are carnivores (or parasites). Typically, nematocyst-laden feeding tentacles capture animal prey and carry it to the mouth region where it is ingested whole. Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:27, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
In any case you need to bring up that there is an omnivorous jellyfish because it is notable and related to Diet   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  13:32, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Mentioned in Diet section. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:42, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
spotted jellyfish from jellyfish lake in a symbiotic relationship with some algae   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  14:58, 12 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Oh is that what you wanted. Added to Diet section.
Not a problem.
Fixed.
Cut.
  • ”Not only do they eat fish eggs and juvenile fish, but they also compete for food resources...” these two statements are not related   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:52, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Rearranged paragraph. The connection is that jellyfish prevent fish stocks from recovering, by eating their young and competing for food, so once fish numbers go down, they won't come back up. Hope that's clear now.
  • ”...leading to jellyfish having a difficult-to-reverse dominant position” I don’t know what this means   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:52, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Reworded.
Data records; larger circles mean those with higher certainty. Added to legend.
  • ”Invasive populations can expand rapidly because they often face no predators in the new habitat,” has no ref   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:52, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Cut.
Cut down repeat mentions of blooming; merged Population, Jelly-fall, Dead zone sections into Blooms.
Fixed.
Fixed.
  • What exactly is the picture in Biotechnology of? The description just says it’s a protein registered with 1ema code   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:52, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Above the file description is a section called SCOP Lineage, which says it's Green Fluorescent Protein, as the caption already says.
  • ”...typically in circular tanks to avoid trapping specimens in corners, as in the Monterey Bay Aquarium,” that sounds like Monterey Bay traps jellyfish in corners   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  16:52, 11 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Fixed.

References[edit]

All fixed, we think.
Done, I think. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:41, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It was alive at 18:08 on 13 October 2018. It's also in the web archive https://web.archive.org/web/20180324085114/http://eol.org/info/442.
Unnecessary, given ref 10 - let's delete it at the end to avoid messing up all your numbers below.
Now deleted! Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:41, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
doi present, no PMC or PMID as far as I can see. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 19:36, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Changed.
Replaced.
Done
Done.
Added.
Added.
Trimmed.
Done.
Gone.
I thought secondary sources were favoured over primary sources. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:58, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Journal articles are preferred over news articles   User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk  21:32, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Added ref to paper by Hays on ocean currents and marine life.
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:58, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:58, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Gone.
  • ref no 100 date given inconsistently
Fixed.
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:58, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 18:58, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]
GA is the goal, but really the question is off-limits. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:49, 13 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 5 January 2022 and 4 April 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Osad3840 (article contribs).

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:21, 17 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment[edit]

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Image from this article to appear as POTD soon[edit]

Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Cross section Olindias formosa en.svg will be appearing as picture of the day on 24 October 2018. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2018-10-24. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 22:52, 21 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Jellyfish
Jellyfish is an informal term used for members of the subphylum Medusozoa and similar animals such as those in the phylum Ctenophora. Jellyfish are mainly free-swimming marine animals with umbrella-shaped bells and trailing tentacles, although a few are not mobile. They move by pulsating the bell. Their tentacles are armed with stinging cells and may be used to capture prey and defend against predators. Jellyfish are found all over the world, from surface waters to the deep sea.

This image shows a labelled cross-section of the flower hat jelly (Olindias formosus).Illustration: Mariana Ruiz Villarreal.

Archive – More featured pictures...

sentence tweak[edit]

@Tgroch: I think I see what you are getting at, please help me to rewrite the sentence.

  • The box jellyfish is largely similar in structure. It has a squarish, box-like bell from each of the four lower corners of which hangs a short pedalium or stalk which bears one or more long, slender tentacles. The rim of …

Maybe some recasting of the sentences, break them down in some way to clarify the unfamiliar structure? cygnis insignis 11:28, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Done, I've split it up to simplify it - the fewer each-of-whichs with grammar too difficult for some large fraction of readers the better. (Feel free to parse that with an old-fashioned grammar primer.) All the best, Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:46, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That was fast! Here's what I came up with:
  • The box jellyfish is largely similar in structure, with one or more long, slender tentacles borne by a short pedalium, or stalk, hanging from each of the four corners of its squarish, box-like bell.
This grammar seems to be appropriate. Thoughts? Tgroch (talk) 13:01, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps, but the new structure with split sentences is simpler. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:31, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Tgroch, I prefer your casting of the sentence. Note there is a licensed use of the term box jellyfish as both singular and plural (ie. fish), the singular 'is' bothers me and 'are' would avoid the idea it is similar to some other unnamed thing. Or reorder to "The structure of box bellyfish is similar"? A nice little diversion, cheers, it always helps to bring fresh eyes to these things. cygnis insignis 13:42, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think so, but if you two like that version, go with it. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:44, 5 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Over the course of editing this paragraph, the meaning has changed. "A short pedalium or stalk hangs from each of the four lower corners, as well as one or more long, slender tentacles." implies that a tentacle (or tentacles) and a pedalium are both attached to each of the four lower corners. The wording we're toying with implies that from each corner hangs a pedalium, and it is to the pedalium that one or more tentacles are attached.
If the tentacles are attached to the pedalium, here's the plural jellyfish version:
  • Box jellyfishes are largely similar in structure, with one or more long, slender tentacles borne by a short pedalium, or stalk, hanging from each of the four corners of their squarish, box-like bells.
I'm no expert, so I'd rather not fiddle with the meaning without confirmation from someone in the field. Tgroch (talk) 00:32, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Tgroch, being an expert may help, but it possible for us to resolve this anyway. What is improved here also needs to be improved at box jellyfish, which it appears to duplicate. I could be mistaken, but content was added to that article by Cwmhiraeth. This message will notify the user, we can compare the source with what we have in both articles, and see what hangs where. cygnis insignis 01:19, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
@Cygnis insignis: I didn't get a ping to this discussion, just saw it on my watchlist. As you say, I added this information to Box jellyfish in 2015. It attempts to describe the animal's anatomy in a straightforward manner, and looking at it now, I see no reason to revise it. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 11:34, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Cwmhiraeth, I messed up the template, which has a bug or feature, apologies for that. I guess if the near duplicate is fine with the @Tgroch: that is the end of it, I thought there may have been something lost when it was copied over. Have a good one. cygnis insignis 11:51, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Sigh. The tentacles are attached to the pedalium. Wording tweaked, Ref added. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:39, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Chiswick Chap, u ok? don't forget to update the duplicate text, if you haven't done so already. Are you planning to take this to FAR? cygnis insignis 11:10, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Eh? The text at box jellyfish isn't a duplicate and appears to be correct. I'm not taking anything to FA. Chiswick Chap (talk) 11:59, 6 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 12 December 2019[edit]

change

Mechanical issues
Jellyfish in large quantities can fill and split fishing nets and crush captured fish.[133] They can clog cooling equipment, disabling power stations in several countries; jellyfish caused a cascading blackout in the Philippines in 1999,[123] as well as damaging the Diablo Canyon Power Plant in California in 2008.[134] They can stop desalination plants and ships' engines.[133][135]

to

Mechanical issues
Jellyfish in large quantities can fill and split fishing nets, crushing and stinging the fish inside.[1] Often the crushed or stung fish are discolored or not fresh enough to sell when they arrive at the market, reducing or negating their market value entirely. Jellyfish also contribute to overfishing practices by eliminating populations of fish and reducing the amount of available product, encouraging further fishing in order to replace damaged product.[2] A massive amount of jellyfish in nets can also occasionally serve as a sort of anchor, rendering the fishing boat immobile until the nets are cut or the jellyfish are removed.
Along with damage to the fishing industry, jellyfish often cause power outages and damage to desalination plants.[3][4] In 2003 jellyfish blocked the pipes of a desalination plant in Oman, cutting off the water supply to the local population by 50%. Intermittent electrical outages in Sweden, Scotland, the Philippines, Tokyo, and California are caused when jellyfish are sucked into cooling intake pipes and cooling systems.[5]This often causes further problems due to lack of air conditioning and refrigeration in warmer climate. Jellyfish congregation near cooling intake pipes may be due to ocean warming and an influx in phyto and zooplankton.[6] Currently there are no preventative measures for jellyfish power outages or damage to desalination plants.}}

Gcgodley (talk) 04:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Shubin, Kristie. "Anthropogenic Factors Associated with Jellyfish Blooms".
  2. ^ Lynam, Christopher. "Jellyfish overtake fish in a heavily fished ecosystem".
  3. ^ Graham, William (01 November 2014). "Linking human well-being and jellyfish: ecosystem services, impacts, and societal responses". Fronteirs of Ecology and the Environment. 12 (9). {{cite journal}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  4. ^ "Jellyfish gone wild". National Science Foundation. National Science Foundation.
  5. ^ Graham, William (01 November 2014). "Linking human well-being and jellyfish: ecosystem services, impacts, and societal responses". Fronteirs in Ecology and the Environment. 12 (9). {{cite journal}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)
  6. ^ Aziz, Abdul (20 December 2000). "Effects of environment on source water for desalination plants on the eastern coast of Saudi Arabia". Desalination. 132 (1–3): 29–40.
 Not done article is good article for now and uses scholarly references for the claims. News sources are not scholarly reference to update the article.-- Harshil want to talk? 12:27, 12 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2020[edit]

Add link, "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiopea_xamachana", to the reference of Cassiopea Xamachana, in the first paragraph under, Relation to humans, Stings. Noctiluus (talk) 22:21, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. I've wikilinked the Cassiopea xamachana article as requested.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:53, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2020[edit]

Change

"Jellyfish have a complex life cycle; the medusa is normally the sexual phase, the planula larva can disperse widely and is followed by a sedentary polyp phase."

to

"Jellyfish have a complex life cycle: the medusa is normally the sexual phase, which produces planula larva that disperse widely and enter a sedentary polyp phase before reaching sexual maturity."

or something similar. The text as currently written is confusing (and arguably grammatically broken) and requires reading the 'life-cycle' section of the article to understand. 240D:0:514F:7300:A4EE:2EDE:659C:FB10 (talk) 02:56, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (Say hi!) 03:50, 24 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2021[edit]

Change "A group of jellyfish is called a smack" to "A group of jellyfish is called a current". ScaleneSamurai (talk) 04:53, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. —KuyaBriBriTalk 05:04, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

J fish sting[edit]

My friend was possibly stung, what was yours like to compare? 2601:583:282:6410:0:0:0:7791 (talk) 06:19, 10 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 23 May 2022[edit]

In the anatomy section, add a hyperlink to the wiki page on hydrostatic skeleton In plain is superior (talk) 12:40, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Cannolis (talk) 12:54, 23 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Deepest Jellyfish Ever Recorded - Article Published[edit]

Just FYI -- Our science team just published a peer-reviewed article documenting the deepest species of jellyfish ever recorded, as part of our ongoing "Ring of Fire" expeditions undertaken by Caladan Oceanic in partnership with Dr. Alan Jamieson (Chief Scientist on the expeditions) from the University of Western Australia. The photo were taken by the submersible Limiting Factor or one of its three accompanying landers. Announcement and link to article: [1]https://twitter.com/VictorVescovo/status/1627785416786018304 Vlvescovo (talk) Vlvescovo (talk) 21:46, 20 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2023[edit]

Change: "There are over 200 species of Scyphozoa, about 50 species of Staurozoa, about 20 species of Cubozoa, and the Hydrozoa includes about 1000–1500 species that produce medusae, but many more species that do not."

To: "There are over 200 species of Scyphozoa, about 50 species of Staurozoa, about 50 species of Cubozoa, and the Hydrozoa includes about 1000–1500 species that produce medusae, but many more species that do not."

Via this[1] source listed on the Cubozoa page under Taxonomy, I believe the number of species in this article is outdated and should be updated to 50 instead of 20.

Thank you! I hope I formatted this request correctly! Kiwrisun (talk) 08:01, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done -Lemonaka‎ 07:40, 19 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "WoRMS - World Register of Marine Species - Cubozoa". marinespecies.org. Retrieved 14 June 2023.

Semi-protected edit request on 14 June 2023 (2)[edit]

Change: ""perfect food", sustainable, and protein-rich but relatively low in food energy."

to: ""perfect food": sustainable and protein-rich but relatively low in food energy."

Reason: Minor grammar fix Kiwrisun (talk) 09:30, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done. Cheers! Cocobb8 (💬 talk to me! • ✏️ my contributions) 15:33, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 23 August 2023[edit]

Under "Ecology", "Diet"
Change: Jellyfish are like other cnidarians generally carnivorous (or parasitic)
To: Jellyfish are, like other cnidarians, generally carnivorous (or parasitic)
Reason: Grammar/syntax
Randicorn (talk) 14:57, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

 Done — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:35, 23 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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