Talk:Hind bint Utba

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Bias in the article[edit]

This article seems to have implausible propaganda type claims made against the family of the founders Umayyad Caliphate.--Toddy1 (talk) 20:23, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Quite an interesting complaint. Do you have any quotes from the article and the corresponding sources, wich you can use to debunk it? 86.80.208.136 (talk) 21:25, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is completely obvious that claims of cannibalism (for example) are just propaganda.--Toddy1 (talk) 21:27, 18 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That she eat the liver of Hamza is an historical fact. 86.80.208.136 (talk) 14:50, 5 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The source for the liver-eating story is Ibn Ishaq (p. 385 in Guillaume's translation). It reads as follows:
Hind bint Utbah and the women with her stopped to mutilate the apostle's dead companions. They cut off their ears and noses and Hind made them into anklets and collars and gave her anklets and collars and pendants to Wahshi the slave of Jubayr ibn Mutim. She cut out Hamza's liver and chewed it but she was not able to swallow it and threw it away. Then she mounted a high rock and shrieked at the top of her voice ...
A poem of battle-victory follows, but the authenticity of the poetry in Ibn Ishaq was questioned even in his lifetime. So the story is not Shia-against-Sunni propaganda. It may, of course, be Muslim-against-pagan propaganda.
It appears to be a historical fact that Hind was accused of adultery against her first husband (the story is in Al-Suyuti), although it is implied in the sources that she was innocent. The allegation that she was unfaithful to Abu Sufyan is not found in the traditional Sunni sources and may well be "Shia propaganda". Even these stories, however, look more like a description of a pre-Islamic polyandrous marriage than anything her pagan contemporaries would have called adultery.Petra MacDonald 22:30, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

"Merging" with Hind al-Hunnud[edit]

This was the last version of "Hind al-Hunnud" before I turned it into a redirect. There was only redundant information to this article here; only one citation wasn't, that I transferred over. --Enyavar (talk) 14:53, 10 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Year of birth[edit]

I cannot find Hind's year of birth in the sources, but I tentatively suggest 581. Her father, Utbah ibn Rabi'ah, was born in 563, so Hind cannot have been born much before 580. Her son, Mu'awiyah, was born in 602; but she calls his brother Hanzala her "firstborn", suggesting that she married Abu Sufyan not later than 600. At this time she was old enough to have a son from her first marriage, and he was not a newborn, as she had had a second marriage in the interim. Therefore the range of possible dates for Hind's birth seem to converge on the early 580s.Petra MacDonald (talk) 22:30, 7 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Year of death[edit]

Do we know when she died? Currently, her death is reported to have taken place in 626, which is six years before she converted to Islam and ten years before she reportedly fought in the Battle of Yarmouk. Meanwhile, Wikidata lists her death as 636, for which there is also no source given. I'm going to delete both years. --Enyavar (talk) 19:40, 10 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know the year of her death, but I do know that 626 and 636 are both wrong. Hind was still alive in the caliphate of Uthman (and, according to Sir William Muir, apparently refusing proposals of marriage!). I think she survived well into the 650s and perhaps even to the caliphate of her son Muawiyah after 661. Petra MacDonald (talk) 00:31, 8 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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