Talk:Goguryeo–Tang War

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Military history: Asian / Chinese / Korean / Medieval

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Sasu river[edit]

Why the hell does the link to Sasu river lead to a page on a river in Romania. It seems like someone is making this stuff up. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.155.141.25 (talk) 21:05, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This war was fought in Korea and it was Silla that kicked the Tang out of Korea not Goguryo some Goguryo supremacist created this page. 141.155.141.25 21:57, 31 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, this page is definitely heavily biased with minimal support. Though I have yet to cite some of the earlier changes regarding the 645 campaign (Zhi Zhi Tong Jian), they're at least more plausible than some of the writings I'm seeing. Tang Taizong dying of an eye infection!? SERIOUSLY? Only Northern Korean fanatics would believe that. It's true that Taizong's health deteriorated in right before his death (and part of that was taking pills), but there has nothing mentioned about an eye injury. If Taizong really had an eye injury, you would think that at least one of the three main sources for information of Tang history would mention it. I must also mention that this article is poorly cited. I too have read of the original writing in this page from elsewhere and I heard it came from one of the two Samguk sources.

Frankly speaking, the objectivity is questionable at best especially with all the emphasis on cowardliness of the Chinese. Tang Taizong running and hiding in a windmill?!?! Seriously? Taizong is not your average Chinese emperor. He is by all accounts one of the greatest military and wise emperors of Chinese history. The only thing military blunders in his life was his first battle where he failed to control his own generals and his last one-this campaign. The whole army, unlike the Sui times, were not wiped out. In fact, most of it was intact (Zhi Zhi Tong Jian). Su Ding Fang was all potrayed as a coward (especially in comparison to Kim yushin) in the sources and frankly, that greatly contradicts the majority of his earlier campaigns written by the Chinese (including the 629 campaign against the Turks when he was NOT yet a prominent general).

Lastly, I'll mention that a major reason I distrust these sources is because of the implausible stories I read and because there are major contradictions with the Chinese sources. Now, why would I trust the Chinese source? The reason is simple. Zhi Zhi Tong jian and the New Tang Book are written by Sima Guang and I believe OuYang Xiu respectively. Both of them are considered amongst the most prominent historians in Chinese history. Furthermore, there is relatively little incentive for them to lie or protect the Tang as these historians were in the following dynasty- the Song. Just in case someone DOES believe that there is still a heavy Chinese bias, you must remember Sima Guang ALSO covered the Sui Wars with Gorguryeo and his coverage is considerably more consistent with the Korean accounts. By both Chinese and Korean accounts, the majority of the 500,000 (I don't remember the exact #), only less than 10,000 returned in one of the campaigns. This is written in both Chinese and Korean texts. If anything this should prove that Sima Guang is a fair and consistent writer. On the other hand, why does the Korean text suddenly differ from the Chinese text on the Tang Wars? Considering the backgrounds of the writers and the previous fact that Sima Guang seems consistent in his writings of all of Chinese history (he wouldn't hesitate to write of devastating Tang losses to the revival of the Goturks in the early 700s, the injustices and embarrassing losses to Nanzhao Guo in the mid 700s, the loss of the Tang army under Xue Rengui to the rebellion of the Tibetans), I HONESTLY trust the Chinese accounts more.

Btw, FWIW, the Samguk Sagi (as I confirmed) also adopted the same figure that Taizong claimed himself- 2000 deaths on the Tang side. Whsie (talk) 11:11, 3 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

i think whoever wrote this article must be korean, so i believe it's heavily biased. also i can't understand his korean english in some extent. so this paragraph is deleted.

20:57, 14 December 2010 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwonair (talk • contribs)

Move discussion in progress[edit]

There is a move discussion in progress which affects this page. Please participate at Talk:Sino-Xiongnu War - Requested move and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 22:21, 19 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge Discussion in Progress[edit]

There is a merge discussion in progress which affects this page. Please participate at Talk:Ansi City - Requested merge and not in this talk page section. Thank you. Kkj11210 (talk) 06:42, 17 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]