Talk:Carl Pelini

This page was proposed for deletion by Paulmcdonald (talk · contribs) on 17 December 2010 with the comment:
College football assistant coaches are normally not considered notable, and notability cannot be achieved because of his head coach and brother Bo Pelini.
It was seconded by Cmadler (talk · contribs) on 2010-12-17 with the comment:
Support proposed deletion.
It was contested by Strikehold (talk · contribs) on 2010-12-17 with the comment:
551 GNews hits, including some features in the first few results; take to AFD if desired: [1]

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography: Sports and Games

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	Sports portal This article is supported by the sports and games work group.

College football Low‑importance

	College football portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject College football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of college football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.College footballWikipedia:WikiProject College footballTemplate:WikiProject College footballcollege football articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Brandon Jones incident[edit]

I don't think we need that little section. Describing an incident like that without telling the reader why that is important to the article, or in the person's life, is not necessary. If he had a history of temper problems, we gave that (cited) fact, and used this debacle as an example, I wouldn't mind it. As it is, it comes across as trying to disparage the guy. Macae, is there a specific reason or policy you cite for having this section kept? Nolelover^{It's football season!} 15:48, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WP:3RR Please see the "Three Revert Rule"--Paul McDonald (talk) 17:00, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

As an assistanct coach, this individual rarely receives any press positive or negative. This camera incident received quite a bit of news coverage from numerous media outlets and was a good indication as to the frustration that this coach felt following the Cornhusker's loss to A&M. As perhaps the most covered and discussed event of the year for this subject, I believe that it is relevant to the article. It is not meant to disparage and could just as easily be seen as evidence of the passion in this coach. I am not sure how to present one or the other however without providing inappropriate POV and instead left the facts in the article without offering further opinion. If you would like to clarify the story further, the assistance is most appreciated! User:Macae 11:04, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

User:cmadler has moved the section here, and that's where it belongs. Otherwise, we are putting WP:UNDUE weight on a one-time incident. There is no explanation why the incident is so big and important to his career. Without that, it should remain at the game's section within the season article. Nolelover^{It's football season!} 17:30, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed deletion[edit]

I nominated this article for proposed deletion because I do not beleive that the subject passes notability standards as an assistant coach (see essay WP:CFBCOACH for details). Certainly his brother Bo Pelini as the head coach passes.--Paul McDonald (talk) 15:51, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I've seconded the proposed deletion. I agree that his career does not create a presumption of notability, and I don't believe there is adequate non-trivial coverage from reliable independent sources to meet the general notability guideline. Mention of the Pelini-Jones incident should be at 2010 Nebraska Cornhuskers football team#Texas A&M, and I've added it there. cmadler (talk) 17:09, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have no problem with deletion of this article. The only reason I would hesitate is because I believe that he will become a head coach soon and achieve notability standard. At that point, the information contained in this article will be useful. User:Macae 11:06, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

My position is keep, at least until we have a better policy on assistant coaches. This one garnered attention here specifically because the subject was in the news. We've got slews of other assistant coach biography articles for top-tier college football programs that have less notable subjects than this one. Guys like Carl Pelini at programs like Nebraska are routinely talked about on national television during games and in sports new shows. I'm not sure what qualifies as "trivial" coverage per Cmadler above. It's sports. It's kind of all trivial. ;) Jweiss11 (talk) 20:16, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Several things would help this article in that regard. If a reliable source has mentioned or speculated about him as a head coach candidate, add it to the article with a citation, and that would strengthen the argument in favor of keeping. Also, this article generally lacks citations to reliable independent sources; it only has one, which only mentions that while all Nebraska football coaches got raises from 2009 to 2010, Pelini got the largest raise of any assistant. It also mentions that Tennessee contacted him about taking the same position (DC) there, which doesn't give strong credence to the idea that he'll soon be a head coach; it would have meant a pay hike, but would probably be considered a lateral move (DC to DC) or maybe even a downward move (Nebraska football > Tennessee football recently). cmadler (talk) 20:24, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)Blasphemy! :) And I would !vote keep as well. Regardless of that one essay, Carl appears to pass the WP:GNG. Significant national news coverage of him from reliable sources certainly hasn't been trivial. I'll look into improving the article. Nolelover^{It's football season!} 20:32, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WP:GNG says "Significant coverage" means that sources address the subject directly in detail, so no original research is needed to extract the content. Significant coverage is more than a trivial mention but it need not be the main topic of the source material. Examples: The 360-page book by Sobel and the 528-page book by Black on IBM are plainly non-trivial. The one sentence mention by Walker of the band Three Blind Mice in a biography of Bill Clinton (Martin Walker (1992-01-06). "Tough love child of Kennedy". The Guardian. {{cite news}}: Check date values in: |date= (help)) is plainly trivial. cmadler (talk) 21:02, 17 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per Jweiss11's logic Oldag07 (talk) 05:32, 25 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]